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S.C. Wack
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[*] posted on 15-6-2008 at 05:56


Membership was closed from time to time, but AFAIK only when NBC aired reruns of the Dateline episode "The X Files".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bxk8tRBp1mU

Rhodium is a collection of articles, books, article excerpts, a few Hive excerpts, and a few things written specially for his site. What you have seen of Rhodium in archives such as Erowid and d-d is a third, perhaps, of what was actually available there.

Two unofficial Hive archives have been made available. IIRC threats were made that the-hive would not return unless these archives went away. Now that synthetikal and telegenetic are gone, a case can bee made that this was merely an excuse available at the time, like the previous excuses.

The former telegenetic web/.zip archive has been uploaded as a public split volume .rar, so that there is a link in this thread. Although the dates may indicate that the chemistry forums are intact for the board as it was at the end, many threads are not there, as was the case the synthetikal-hosted web/.iso archive that it was based on, and to a (perhaps lesser) degree at the site itself before 11/14/04. Hyperlab and the non-chem forums are not present of course.

These pages do not have the full HTML formatting. Maybe someone would be interested in what a Hive thread looked like during the time that it was most popular, so here is a page: post 290438; "2-hydroxy-5-MeO-BA: The easy way". See there that no one came and shat all over the thread, unlike this one. That may have been due to it being locked after posting, though.

[Edited on 15-6-2008 by S.C. Wack]

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MagicJigPipe
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[*] posted on 15-6-2008 at 06:04


I've read the archives and various informative pieces on the Hive. That's what I meant by "from what I've read". Really, I'm not criticizing it that much, I'm just saying that it appeared to have flaws that would've made me post at places like ScienceMadness more often than on it.

Sorry, S.C. Wack, I haven't read your post yet! That's what the edit button is for though.

Quote:
See there that no one came and shat all over the thread, unlike this one.


What is that supposed to mean? You see, that's what I mean. As if discussion is somehow "shitting all over a thread". The Hive was soooooo great that threads were never deficated upon. Sheeeesh. This is tiring.

If it weren't for things like that people's (including mine) opinion of the Hive might be better. Incessant belittling of this forum in contrast to the Hive (which doesn't exist, BTW) just doesn't seem like a good way to show that Hive members had lots of class.

Also, I believe that was a stab at me which is indicative of what I said earlier.

My apologies S.C. Wack if this is not what you intended. However, do you see how Hive fanaticism can cause people who have no problem with one another to start "flaming"?

[Edited on 6-15-2008 by MagicJigPipe]




"There must be no barriers to freedom of inquiry ... There is no place for dogma in science. The scientist is free, and must be free to ask any question, to doubt any assertion, to seek for any evidence, to correct any errors. ... We know that the only way to avoid error is to detect it and that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire. And we know that as long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think, free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost, and science can never regress." -J. Robert Oppenheimer
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S.C. Wack
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[*] posted on 15-6-2008 at 06:41


Quote:
Originally posted by MagicJigPipe
What is that supposed to mean? You see, that's what I mean. As if discussion is somehow "shitting all over a thread".


Try reading this thread before telling me that it hasn't been shat on. It clearly has. And by saying it hasn't without actually reading it, you...

Has it occurred to you that maybe the singular greatness of the-hive was not mass hallucination, and perhaps the problem is with you? A lot of people have problems with you, and I'm not so sure that this is because they were Hive members. Funny how that is.
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[*] posted on 15-6-2008 at 13:05


Who? Give examples. Back up your claims. And since I'm almost certain you're talking about "people" from a separate forum, I don't care. And you're probably somewhat right. People who speak their minds have people that disagree with them. However, it appears that only former members of the Hive consider this disagreement a "problem".

The Hive apparently was/is a great source of information. In fact, I have no problems with it. It's the way some former members will defend to the death any mention of it's flaws without tact or morality that causes my disdain. It appears to share many similarities to religious fanatacism. It was an online forum with a wealth of information, nothing more, nothing less. You act as if it is your religion and it's creator is your god. Others may be afraid to discuss any flaws that it may have had, but not I. I won't let you insult me into silence.

Notice that you are the one that keeps bringing it to a personal level. "People don't like you! Huh!" How cliche. It seems that attempted character assassination seems to have much popularity among former members (and people that wish they were former members).

I really don't have time to sit and bicker with you. If you want to have a civil argument/debate then, fine. If not, like I said, I don't have time. I'm supposed to be writing a 1000 word essay... Which reminds me...

So, can you make a post that does not contain some sort of personal attack? Are you capable of that in this situation? Remember, personal attacks indicate that you can think of no other way to argue your point.

[Edited on 6-15-2008 by MagicJigPipe]




"There must be no barriers to freedom of inquiry ... There is no place for dogma in science. The scientist is free, and must be free to ask any question, to doubt any assertion, to seek for any evidence, to correct any errors. ... We know that the only way to avoid error is to detect it and that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire. And we know that as long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think, free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost, and science can never regress." -J. Robert Oppenheimer
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[*] posted on 15-6-2008 at 14:05


Can everyone stop arguing? Seriously, petty bickering like this takes away from *this* forum, of which we are all members and thus have an obligation to keep running as smoothly as possible.

The Hive was what it was, nothing more and nothing less. For those more intimately involved, it was a place that was and is irreplaceable. For those less involved, it was a treasure trove of information relating to organic chemistry. For others, it was something else entirely.

It's gone but not forgotten. Can't we just leave it at that?

If people want a forum to attack each other, why not register at some random forum and bicker there?

This is a chemistry forum.

Thanks!

PS: I hope no one responds to this (or any of the above posts), unless it's news about the Hive, or an archive.

[Edited on 15-6-2008 by PainKilla]
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[*] posted on 15-6-2008 at 17:20


Painkilla is quite right. Whatever this thread is about, it isn't chemistry, and chemistry is what THIS forum isall about.



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[*] posted on 15-6-2008 at 18:01


Painkilla, I see your point. Sauron, I also see yours but this is in the "Forum Matters" section of the forum. Although this particular "argument" has almost nothing to do with chemistry, I don't think it's fair to use that broad argument for all discussions here. I admit that this should be in Whimsy but debate is healthy, IMO, as long as it doesn't get personal.

Argggg... Damn this forum! It keeps taking me away from my essay. Essays on literature is one of the hardest things for me. This one happens to be on a play, which is slightly more bearable. I can't wait until I'm done with this class and I never have to take another English class again! but this is OT and I'll stop...

I shall do myself and this thread a favor by just skipping over the "Forum Matters" section for a couple of days.




"There must be no barriers to freedom of inquiry ... There is no place for dogma in science. The scientist is free, and must be free to ask any question, to doubt any assertion, to seek for any evidence, to correct any errors. ... We know that the only way to avoid error is to detect it and that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire. And we know that as long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think, free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost, and science can never regress." -J. Robert Oppenheimer
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[*] posted on 15-6-2008 at 20:11


I believe Forum Matters is about Matters pertaining to THIS forum and not any other existing or lapsed forum. No, MJP, you didn't start this thread. But it really is pretty OT as well as obviously divisive.



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[*] posted on 15-6-2008 at 21:15


I feel like I have to put in my two bits about the Hive. I logged onto Rhodium everyday for four, maybe five years. As I remember, the site disappeared briefly in 2003 maybe. It had been a .com. But it returned as Rhodium.ws. Rhodium said the server was located in Western Somoa. After it became a .ws I felt that things were changing and they did with its demise. It was a big part of my daily life. My days felt incomplete when I couldn't log in. It was always such an exciting place and the first of its kind in my life. But it was a bit overly directed to producing controlled drugs - principally speed. That's something I have never done and never will do. None the less, the chemistry was exciting. I intently followed the GAK wars where manufacturers worked at developing a psuedofed that couldn't be extracted and Hive members figured out evermore ingenious extraction methods. But the main thrust was always speed. For instance, all the forum members were called Bees because their purpose in life was to produce Honey. I assumed honey was amphetamine base. There were also different classes of bees. The worst was to be a drone. The thing about the Hive is that there was so much active talent contributing all the time with Rhodium at the center. I'm not sure exactly who Rhodium was. I always figured he was a grad chem student. I think he may have eluded to that fact sometime in a post. It seemed like his big work in life was the formal writeup in HTML and .pdf drug reactions as the best synth was finalized. Those are those nice writeup you see in the archive boxed in blue and gray. I think Rhodium one time alluded to hoping he could finish the write-ups, liking he was moving on or graduating or something. I was delighted when I discovered SciMadness. It was alot like the Hive but with a much broader base. The Hive had different sections to the forum but the big action was always in the Amphetamines and Stimulants section. It seems to me like SM exists because its members love chemistry and want to share the experience with anyone else with a similar interest. It seemed to me like the Hive was principally about making illegal drugs which would be sold. And then people get hurt. I always thought that was unfortunate and I still do.
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[*] posted on 15-6-2008 at 23:34


^^ Bigbigbeaker I think you are wrong here. I was a member of The Hive for nearly 4 years (under a different username) and as far as I can remember most of the well respected members were against making controlled substances for profit. It was more about finding novel reaction paths to known substances and also discovering new interesting ones.

And the discussions were not mainly amphetamine oriented either. Maybe you should have spent more time reading the serious chemistry and novel discourse forums and a little less the stimulants forum. If you want to know what an amphetamine oriented forum looks like, check out Wetdreams or The Zonez and you will see there's quite a difference.

[Edited on 16-6-2008 by SecretSquirrel]
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[*] posted on 16-6-2008 at 02:34


I have to agree with SecretSquirrel. It appears the purpose of the Stimulants section at The Hive was to deter the useless members from shitting all over the forum. Since the forum was public and anybody could register, the consequence was the immense influx of tweakers, swims, kewls and wanabeecriminals that would destroy the forum in mater of months if it was not for the defensive role of the Stimulants section. Instead of bothering with them, they themselves removed their presence by being "active" only in the Stimulants section. This allowed the more serious members, beginners included, a more fruitful discussion in most other sections. So, ironically it was because of the Stimulants section that scientific discussion on non-stimulants become possible.

What in my opinion was the major problem of The Hive was the stubborn reluctance to publish results about new compound's research. In a way that was reasonable and understandable since at those time the dreaded "research chemicals" business flourished and by abusing the drug laws made money causing several of the most beautiful compounds to become scheduled (TMA-2 in EU is one such example). The fear was that by posting good results about the new compounds, they would soon be abused for money end end up scheduled. There must have been other reasons as well, but this resulted in the overall degradation of the novel research attitude and pioneer spirit.




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MagicJigPipe
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[*] posted on 16-6-2008 at 12:02


Well, from what I can tell from the archives, the stimulants section seemed to be the most active. I agree that it is certainly much better than WD but we can't deny the fact that it was indeed one of the most active forums on the site.

It seems like it was kind of like WD but with more of a SM flavor and more broad and in depth selection of topics (than WD).

Am I wrong about that?




"There must be no barriers to freedom of inquiry ... There is no place for dogma in science. The scientist is free, and must be free to ask any question, to doubt any assertion, to seek for any evidence, to correct any errors. ... We know that the only way to avoid error is to detect it and that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire. And we know that as long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think, free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost, and science can never regress." -J. Robert Oppenheimer
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[*] posted on 17-6-2008 at 00:41


You can't tell from the archives which forum was the most active, because many threads from other forums are not in the archive. Another reason can be that Tweekers and Swims made a post for any simple and ridiculous question they wanted to ask. That resulted in a large number of threads with very little or no value at all.

So if you look at the amount of information given in other forums (Methods discourse, Novel discourse, Serious chemistry and Tryptamine forum) you'll see that Stimulants forum was expendable...if you're not looking for a place to swim, that is.
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MagicJigPipe
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[*] posted on 17-6-2008 at 07:00


Well, it is my opinion that, in general, stimulants are the most discussed drug on the internet. I suppose it could be because of the nature of stimulants themselves (people who want to talk about them are already stimulated! ;)).

Even here it seems that the overwhelming majority of threads about drug chemistry has to do with phenethyl(propyl)amine stimulants and their derivatives. I have never understood people's undying fascination with amphetamines and related compounds but, to each his own.

I have just noticed that the average poster who is interested in such things tends to be... How can I put it nicely? Less informed... In fact, that is the main reason why the discussion of these substances has a bad connotation for me. Basically, it seems like mostly kids and burned out younger people that love to talk about stimulants non-stop.

This may be wrong but, in my experience, I found this to be the case. Like you said, they seem to bring down any forum that they flock to and inhabit.

It is because of those people that even when someone comes in that is intelligent and wishes to discuss stimulants on a higher level, I still become slightly irritated. And remember, I have "liberal" views on the "controlled substance" situation.




"There must be no barriers to freedom of inquiry ... There is no place for dogma in science. The scientist is free, and must be free to ask any question, to doubt any assertion, to seek for any evidence, to correct any errors. ... We know that the only way to avoid error is to detect it and that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire. And we know that as long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think, free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost, and science can never regress." -J. Robert Oppenheimer
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[*] posted on 17-6-2008 at 21:25


i like you MagicJigpipe

8)




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[*] posted on 18-6-2008 at 16:39


Quote:
Originally posted by synapse
Invitation is now closed.


SHIT, missed out (snaps fingers and looks upset).
lol can you believe that crap, guess my brain just didn't 'synapse' quickly enough. Thats said it could be not intended to be bitchy just informative; succinct let call it.

Having never really read this 'section', forum matters before, i am finding it hilarious, its like i imagine a girls bathroom at a restaurant is like. Out in the restaurant everyone is nice and civil and laughing at jokes and in here everyone is bitchy and nasty. Its really funny.




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[*] posted on 18-6-2008 at 22:07


Haha. Succinct, yes. Try not to get too worked up about it ; ) .
We had an invitation phase where people were allowed access to the references and other restricted access sections if they were known members from other forums. This is no longer the case, but you can still register (though please do refrain if you wish to complain - hey, that rhymes).
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[*] posted on 25-6-2008 at 21:47


The Hive was cool because of the amount of people that were registered. It was a very social place filled with all types of people and personalities, ranging from old chemists and young college grads to drug addicts and strippers. I think there was about 3000 users up until the Dateline report when suddenly the numbers went high sky and the forum had to shut down for a few days because the servers couldn't handle the volume.

Every hour there would be hundreds of new posts whereas here at SM things are a lot slower and dull mainly because this forum doesn't allow discussion of drug chemistry, and the Hive was dedicated to the chemistry of mind-altering substances.
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[*] posted on 26-6-2008 at 11:24


What for you may be cool and interesting would be killing the forum for others. If sciencemadness would change into a forum as you describe, with thousands of active members, discussing "mind-altering substances" with hundreds of posts per hour, then I surely would leave the forum. I cannot imagine that all those hundreds of posts per hour have a decent scientific content. Probably only one or two of them.

I'm glad that sciencemadness is what it is now. It is the only internationally oriented chemistry forum with many serious general home chemists, while there are several drugs-related forums out there.

Quantity is not what counts for me. Scientific quality is what I prefer.

[Edited on 26-6-08 by woelen]




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[*] posted on 26-6-2008 at 16:01


The hundreds of posts an hour is nonsense. There were 15-50 people logged in at any one time. It had fewer members than there are here, mostly lurkers as here, though there was culling of members who hadn't logged in for quite some time. The number of those who posted often in the chem forums was not much higher than here.

It was more than a drug chemistry forum, a point that I keep trying to make and everyone else keeps trying to ignore. You get only a small taste of what people finding references for relevant posts is like here. Many people had a lot of access to all kinds of journal literature, and were enthusiastic in hunting them down.
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[*] posted on 26-6-2008 at 16:43


Yah. Hundreds an hour was exaggerating. Maybe hundred a day.
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[*] posted on 26-6-2008 at 19:56


That would probably annoy the hell out of me. Wading through all of those "BomBxOrs RoxOrz mY BoXorS" posts to get to what is interesting...

If the Hive was even 1% similar to the kind of drug forums that are around now... I don't think I would be willing to, like I said, wade through all the 12-18 year old kid posts.

I know I sound like an old fart but I'm kinda embarrassed to think that I was like some of them back then. Oh well, it happens to everybody.




"There must be no barriers to freedom of inquiry ... There is no place for dogma in science. The scientist is free, and must be free to ask any question, to doubt any assertion, to seek for any evidence, to correct any errors. ... We know that the only way to avoid error is to detect it and that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire. And we know that as long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think, free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost, and science can never regress." -J. Robert Oppenheimer
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[*] posted on 27-6-2008 at 04:32


The Hive was also very intolerant of idiots and trolls. Their posts would be hidden and downrated.

EDIT: A large version Rhodium archive has also been uploaded, since the hiveboard was also and there was actually some downloads of it, might as well do both. It is similar but not identical to Ionium's psychedelichosting files.

[Edited on 27-6-2008 by S.C. Wack]
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[*] posted on 27-6-2008 at 08:05


What is a "troll" again? I know what it "really" is but...

Is it someone that starts fights?

I'm sorry that I have to ask this but I'm so used to this kind of "chest pounding" behavior from former Hive members. Was that statement meant to be a stab at me?

Sorry if it wasn't but... Surely you can understand why I have to ask.




"There must be no barriers to freedom of inquiry ... There is no place for dogma in science. The scientist is free, and must be free to ask any question, to doubt any assertion, to seek for any evidence, to correct any errors. ... We know that the only way to avoid error is to detect it and that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire. And we know that as long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think, free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost, and science can never regress." -J. Robert Oppenheimer
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[*] posted on 27-6-2008 at 08:35


..........you catch on fast,

(Insignificant not contributory)

What is a "troll" again? I know what it "really" is but...

Is it someone that starts fights?

I'm sorry that I have to ask this but I'm so used to this kind of "chest pounding" behavior from former Hive members. Was that statement meant to be a stab at me?

Sorry if it wasn't but... Surely you can understand why I have to ask.




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