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Author: Subject: Exotic thermites & analogs
Bot0nist
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[*] posted on 6-2-2012 at 08:09


Coming later this week.
Just put in an order for;

1lbs Mg powder -325 mesh
2lbs Atomized Al Spherical -400mesh
1lbs Atomized German dark Pyro Al 3-micron
1lbs Copper Oxide black
1lbs Iron Oxide red
1lbs Iron oxide black
2lbs Sulfur powder
2lbs Potassium Perchlorate (w/ cab-O-sil)

Looking forward to making some different thermites, maybe some "thermate", and flash compositions. I'm not sure if these reagents qualify as exotic, but do you all have any suggestions of what would be fun. Or what you would like to see. I will gladly post pics or small videos.

[Edited on 6-2-2012 by Bot0nist]




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[*] posted on 6-2-2012 at 22:32


Here are a few from Wikipedia that would love to try. I'll start with the basics first. I want to get a reliable "first fire" composition made so my thermites will be fuse sensitive. I hope that the fine size of the Al powder will help this. Maybe some Mg/Al/S + oxidizer if needed will get it going easy.

"There are many possible thermodynamically stable fuel-oxidizer combinations. Some of them are:

* Aluminium-molybdenum(VI) oxide
* Aluminium-copper(II) oxide
* Aluminium-iron(II,III) oxide
* Antimony-potassium permanganate
* Aluminium-potassium permanganate
* Aluminium-bismuth(III) oxide
* Aluminium-tungsten(VI) oxide hydrate
* Aluminium-fluoropolymer (typically Viton)
* Titanium-boron (burns to titanium diboride)

In military research, aluminium-molybdenum oxide, aluminium-Teflon and aluminium-copper(II) oxide have received considerable attention.[3] Other compositions tested were based on nanosized RDX and with thermoplastic elastomers. PTFE or other fluoropolymer can be used as a binder for the composition. Its reaction with the aluminium, similar to magnesium/teflon/viton thermite, adds energy to the reaction.[6] Of the listed compositions, that with potassium permanganate has the highest pressurization rate.[7]

Nanoparticles can be prepared by spray drying from a solution, or in case of insoluble oxides, spray pyrolysis of solutions of suitable precursors. The composite materials can be prepared by sol-gel techniques or by conventional wet-mixing and pressing.

Similar but not identical are nano-laminated pyrotechnic compositions, or energetic nanocomposites, in which fuel and oxidizer are deposited alternately in thin layers. The materials and the thickness of the layers control the detonating properties.[8] "


~ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metastable_intermolecular_compo...

[Edited on 7-2-2012 by Bot0nist]




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[*] posted on 8-3-2012 at 14:30


I've just found that very cool thermite vid. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfGKP8W1ZE4&feature=relat...
Someone have an idea what composition they use? Can I make one with paper, thermite, barium nitrate and sulphur?
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[*] posted on 3-4-2012 at 09:36


Have anyone tried Potassium permanganate and calcium carbide thermite
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virgilius1979
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[*] posted on 3-4-2012 at 10:03


Calcium carbide is pretty hard rock to crash and make powder and it would react with atmospheric moisture, so you need to use it fast.
I am curious about the reaction equation between these two subs.
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[*] posted on 21-8-2012 at 18:33


Quote: Originally posted by Vikascoder  
Have anyone tried Potassium permanganate and calcium carbide thermite


CaC2 and KMnO4! That seems realy sensitive to me. I have, however, done C and KMnO4, and that -while not a thermite in the traditional sense- burns extremely hot and with a brilliant white lilac flame. The little slag that survives is glowing a bright yellow immediately after the reaction and takes the form of a sponge. I'll post a video soon (hopefully). :D




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[*] posted on 23-9-2012 at 11:30


^ Wow, Calcium carbide and potassium permanganate must be awesome!



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[*] posted on 29-9-2012 at 13:39


Just tried igniting a MnO2 thermite, without good results. The powders of MnO2 and Al were mixed together in no particular ratio (much more Al than Mn by volume), and a pile of permanganate was placed on top with a magnesium ribbon in the middle. Upon addition of glycerin, the pile smoked but did not ignite. I tried adding a little more permanganate, then a little more glycerin a couple times, until parts of it ignited, but I never had the whole thing ignite. Why is this? Did any of the thermite actually ignite, or was it just the glycerin?



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triplepoint
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[*] posted on 29-9-2012 at 16:33


Quote: Originally posted by elementcollector1  
Just tried igniting a MnO2 thermite, without good results.


How clean was your MnO2?
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hyfalcon
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[*] posted on 30-9-2012 at 01:52


Try a common sparkler for your ignition. If it's gonna burn, that will set it off.

Another thought if to try the sulfur/aluminum prime talked about further up in the thread.

[Edited on 30-9-2012 by hyfalcon]
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[*] posted on 30-9-2012 at 17:04


I seem to remember that the Aluminium-bismuth(III) oxide is used in Dragon egg fireworks to generate the loud boom/crackle, due to the fact that the bismuth boils at the temperature of the reaction, so it tends to explode noisily rather than burn. So be careful with that one. Same goes for lead based thermites. I have only done a few, but they are easy to make too large or violent. I actually had a teacher once run one for a demo that got pretty large and out of control. It was a lot of fun...
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[*] posted on 17-10-2012 at 15:52


MnO2 was black, and very pure, may not have been dehydrated enough.
Don't have any sparklers, but that S and Al idea might be good.
Another thought is to drip a small amount of molten Al onto the thermite mix. If that can't ignite it, then... might have to flip some tables. :P




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[*] posted on 22-10-2012 at 08:39


Quote: Originally posted by Spart  
Is there any way to perhaps dilute an extremely fine powder Thermite mixture of CuO+Al to the point where it won't react explosively? I'd like to yield pure copper from a CuO+Al Thermite, and all I have is extremely fine powdered ingredients which react violently. Could I add a little bit of sand to the mixture to raise the ignition temp a bit? I can't think of any way the components of sand would react hazardly with Al, Al2O3, CuO, or Cu.
Could Sand work to slow down the reaction enough to have a contained reaction with a solid yield?
If so, I would imagine I should also grind down the sand to a somewhat fine mesh before adding. Correct? Or would this jsut discourage the reaction very little?

[Edited on 28-12-2011 by Spart]

[Edited on 29-12-2011 by Spart]

If you want to get Cu powder out of Al powder...maybe try to let fine Al powder fall into a blue concentrated solution of CuSO4 with a few ml of HCl as catalyst.
The HCl will help to depassivate the oxyd layer of the Al powder...then naked Al will react with Cu(2+)...to produce copper metal powder.
2Al + 3Cu(2+) --> 2Al(3+) + 3 Cu

In brief, the blue solution will fade to an uncolorized one... CuSO4 will disappear and form Al2(SO4)3
Copper powder will remain at the bottom.




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[*] posted on 15-11-2012 at 14:23
Slags



could I ask if people who have the opportunity, would please look at old slags that have been left exposed to the weather.

In particular:

TiO2 - Al burns,TiO2 is easily soluble in molten alumina, but only slightly soluble in solid alumina. This leads to the TiO2 exolving out of the solid alumina to form microscopic Rutile crystals, leading to a phenomenon known as asterisim. These star stones, if they are of a reasonable colour, can be polished as trinkets.

Ca rich burns should produce a slag that left exposed to the CO2 and water vapour in the air, should break down to chalk and ( ? ).

a Mg/Al alloy fuelled burn will provide the ingredients for making spinel MgAl2O4 the question is can these form crystals in a matter of years / decades?

Please don’t get the idea that I think that if you look at your old slags you will find gem stones. You will not. What you might find are small dark mineral specimens that are so full of crystal defects as to be useless. I could be wrong about that, you might fined perfect crystals of Diaspore, but I doubt it. please go and look if you can, if you are new to thermites just give a couple of seconds thought to what else you are making when you make that blob of metal.

Further up this thread Blogfast describes a very interesting failed attempt to use lime as a fluxing agent for reducing Silicon. Before I read that post I was going to suggest silica and lime as a combination to form a slag with alumina, as a possible way taking some of the heat out of the Manganese reduction whilst having a very liquid slag. Both Anorthite CaAl2Si2O8 and Grossular Ca3Al2(SiO4)3 are described as fusible in mineralogy text books, this means that they can be melted in the flame of a spirit lamp. So what happened. I suspect that the Fluorine from the fluorite reacted with the alumina and the surface of the silica grains, to coat them in a layer of Al2F2SiO4 Topaz. Assuming that this is the case then fluorine should be kept away from alumina-silicate melts. And for that bit of information Blogfast should be thanked.
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[*] posted on 16-11-2012 at 06:46


one day I was trying to make sodium JFTFOI, cutting corners, so I wrapped some Lye in a long sheet of Heavy Duty Reynolds, and twisted at both ends to make a nice, tight Al foil turd. Scene 2: thrown into red hot oak fire. Definitely an exothermic reaction going on there. Analogous (but more controlled) ways of making alkali earths could, I suppose, be construed as a type of thermite. I'd have to try with powdered Al and powdered K0H. SUPER DRY, as in grignard dry.


BTW: sparkler better than Mg ribbon?

[Edited on 16-11-2012 by Fennel Ass Ih Tone]
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[*] posted on 16-11-2012 at 06:52


Quote: Originally posted by elementcollector1  
Just tried igniting a MnO2 thermite, without good results. The powders of MnO2 and Al were mixed together in no particular ratio (much more Al than Mn by volume), and a pile of permanganate was placed on top with a magnesium ribbon in the middle. Upon addition of glycerin, the pile smoked but did not ignite. I tried adding a little more permanganate, then a little more glycerin a couple times, until parts of it ignited, but I never had the whole thing ignite. Why is this? Did any of the thermite actually ignite, or was it just the glycerin?


A sure-fire (n pun I) way is by adding ethylene glycol antifreeze (best brand is Dog Killah) to some HTH. Works every time. Lots of white smoke, followed by a very hot fire.
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[*] posted on 1-1-2013 at 16:12


Quote: Originally posted by elementcollector1  
Just tried igniting a MnO2 thermite, without good results. The powders of MnO2 and Al were mixed together in no particular ratio (much more Al than Mn by volume), and a pile of permanganate was placed on top with a magnesium ribbon in the middle. Upon addition of glycerin, the pile smoked but did not ignite. I tried adding a little more permanganate, then a little more glycerin a couple times, until parts of it ignited, but I never had the whole thing ignite. Why is this? Did any of the thermite actually ignite, or was it just the glycerin?


The KMnO4 also needs to be finely powdered to ignite the glycerin. Otherwise, it just smokes.
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[*] posted on 15-1-2013 at 22:15


A universe of Thermites are listed in the appendices
Survey of Combustible Metals , Thermites , & Intermetallics for Pyrotechnic Applications
www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a419762.pdf

.
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[*] posted on 11-2-2013 at 04:18


I was thinking about doing a thermite with tungsten trioxide, made from sodium tungstate which in turn is from 100% tungsten TIG rods (don't want no thorium).

What am I expecting? I'm assuming quite violent because of tungsten's low reactivity but will the thermite get hot enough to melt the tungsten metal? Does the metal need to melt for the reaction to procede?

I know i'm going from tungsten to tungsten but SCIENCE!
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[*] posted on 5-5-2013 at 14:27


While I was looking for papers on the combustion synthesis of Bi2O3, I came across an interesting paper which implies that Al/Bi2O3 (using nanopowders) might make a good detonator. The paper's attached.

Attachment: nanoenergetic_gas-generators_principles_and_applications.pdf (375kB)
This file has been downloaded 720 times
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[*] posted on 26-6-2013 at 20:02


Quote: Originally posted by jpsmith123  
While I was looking for papers on the combustion synthesis of Bi2O3, I came across an interesting paper which implies that Al/Bi2O3 (using nanopowders) might make a good detonator. The paper's attached.


I just posted about this paper also in another section. I'm hoping to get some others to go in with me on a group buy of nano Al powder and possibly Bi2O3 form us-nano.com

[Edited on 27-6-2013 by malford]




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[*] posted on 24-10-2013 at 02:30


I make brass parts on a minilathe, and have a large tub of fine milled brass, which I know is 20% zinc. What would be a good oxide to mix this with for a thermite reaction ? Presumably, copper oxide wont work ?
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[*] posted on 24-10-2013 at 03:30


Not much would work as copper is very unreacive. You cold try a noble metal oxide, but that's exbensive.
I want to do a lithium and silver oxide thermite. I also wonder about using mercury oxide with aluminum or another metal as a thermite.... or CuO/Hg
(I'm just speculating I don't actually plan to use mercury.




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[*] posted on 24-10-2013 at 16:01


SO, how can we determine if Mercuric Oxide would have a thermic reaction with copper metal , other than trying it? presum,ably, the end products woudl be mercury metal and cupric oxide ?
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[*] posted on 24-10-2013 at 16:20


By adding a drop of water to a potassium permangenate and glycerin slurry, one can speed up the reaction time immensely. This is quite helpful when igniting thermite mixes.
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