ShadowWarrior4444
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"Alchemical Fire in a Flask"
A wee hobby of mine is reading alchemical texts and translating them into modern chemical formula. While reading one of particular repute, The Art of
Distillation by John French (mid 1600s,) I came across something interesting. This particular alchemist was more industrially inclined, and his
terminology/book layout resembles modern chemistry books, aside from the more archaic terms, so I didn't immediately dismiss the claims.
He describes a method of producing "Alchemical Fire in a Flask" with the properties: Liquid, that when exposed to air lights on fire, but when
stoppered/removed from air ceases burning. Upon re-exposure, it ignites again.
The formula he states is: "Take the Burning Spirit of the Salt of Tin." According to generally accepted alchemical terms, the "Burning Spirit" is
Ethanol, the most volatile and burning part of wine. The salt of tin is, as one might guess, Tin Chloride.
Has anyone heard of this mixture, or perhaps other substances exhibiting similar properties?
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Formatik
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I used to have a big interest in pyrophoric substances or mixtures and there are quite a few of them, white phosphorus is one of them and the best
known such compound. Though some other ones would be organic metallo compounds like diethylzinc Zn(C2H5)2 (see Org.Synth.) or diethylcadmium, an
aluminium alkyl like trimethylaluminium (Al2(CH3)6), all of which are liquids. Some alkyl alkali compounds like methyllithium, methylpotassium, or
organic alkali alkylamides like Na, K, or Li diethylamide (prepn. in US6576796).
And some inorganic metallic compounds like TiCl2, TiCl3, PbP5, MgH2, MnS, CoN, BCo2, Fe(OC)5, some amalgams like Al-Hg, or finely divided metals like
Co, Pd, Mn, Ni, etc. are said to be pyrophoric, mixtures (PbCrO4 and S), etc. Gaseous compounds like diborane (B2H6), silane (SiH4), dichlorosilane
(SiH2Cl2), phosphine (PH3, pyrophoric in higher concentrations) or arsine (AsH3), here silane is the least toxic.
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ShadowWarrior4444
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Schockwave
I used to have a big interest in pyrophoric substances or mixtures and there are quite a few of them, white phosphorus is one of them and the best
known such compound. Though some other ones would be organic metallo compounds like diethylzinc Zn(C2H5)2 (see Org.Synth.) or diethylcadmium, an
aluminium alkyl like trimethylaluminium (Al2(CH3)6), all of which are liquids. Some alkyl alkali compounds like methyllithium, methylpotassium, or
organic alkali alkylamides like Na, K, or Li diethylamide (prepn. in US6576796).
And some inorganic metallic compounds like TiCl2, TiCl3, PbP5, MgH2, MnS, CoN, BCo2, Fe(OC)5, some amalgams like Al-Hg, or finely divided metals like
Co, Pd, Mn, Ni, etc. are said to be pyrophoric, mixtures (PbCrO4 and S), etc. Gaseous compounds like diborane (B2H6), silane (SiH4), dichlorosilane
(SiH2Cl2), phosphine (PH3, pyrophoric in higher concentrations) or arsine (AsH3), here silane is the least toxic. |
Diethylzinc seems quite interesting in reference to the original alchemic work, could there perhaps be a Tin analog formed from SnCl2 and ethanol? I
suppose I will need to check Orgsyn and various other less esoteric sources.
Also, if it requires anhydrous ethanol to form, as I suspect it might, Mr. French may have found a convenient way to produce it. Unless he simply used
conc. sulfuric acid and neglected to mention it. Or perhaps calcium chloride along with tin chloride? Eh--it is mostly speculation until I check
unambiguous syntheses.
[Edited on 5-7-2008 by ShadowWarrior4444]
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Formatik
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My question is with "Burning Spirit of the Salt of Tin", does he mean to take two ingredients, or is it one compound he is experimenting with - a
reference to a compound like tin diethyl? A usual method of obtaining organometallic alkyls is to warm the metal with an alkyl iodide in the absence
of air, forming the alkylmetal iodide which can then be decomposed to the metallic alkyl, as can be seen here in the Chemistry of the Carbon Compounds by V. von Richter around pgs. 179-186. These compounds are also highly toxic. You've probably heard all of the
fuss about tetraethyl lead, (CH3CH2)4Pb which used to be used to increase octane rating.
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not_important
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Speculation here http://www.alchemylab.com/Alchemy%20Journal%20PDFs/AJ%20Vol.... is that is was SnBr2, although that sounds bogus to me although both SnCl2 and
SnBr2 fume on exposure to moist air.
Note that "spirit" would have meant something distilled, and distilled at temperatures up to red heat; "Spirit of Verdigris" is acetic acid produced
by the destructive distillation of verdigris. Occasionally the term was applied to residue remaining after destructive distillation. Salt of tin is
most likely stannous chloride in its hydrated form. Distilling that will first give water and some HCl, then anhydrous SnCl2.
However in this case it seems that it may be another compound, as the "burning salt" is heated in a retort and the residue is the target. Given that
"tin" was not always the element, but silvery alloys, this could be a compound of tin and other metals with organic acids and/or sulfur. Destructive
distillation would leave finely divided metals or lower oxides or sulfides - like pyro lead.
Stay away from organotin compounds, they can be nasty. While the R4Sn and RH3Sn classes are relatively non-toxic, the di- and- tri alkyl and
aromatics can cause destruction of nerve tissue, leading to can best be described as brain rot.
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solo
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I had recently been working with the sulfate ester of an amino acid free base and noticed a salt precipitante that gave a greenish blue flourecent
glow when heated.....never seen that before.....that's as much glow I've seen from a flask..............solo
It's better to die on your feet, than live on your knees....Emiliano Zapata.
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12AX7
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| Quote: | Originally posted by solo
I had recently been working with the sulfate ester of an amino acid free base |
So the amino acid is one with a hydroxyl? By free base, do you mean the amine is unprotonated? Sounds like it could be interesting to explore (in
another thread..).
Tim
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ShadowWarrior4444
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I tend to agree with not_important's analysis of John French's concoction, taking the burning spirit *of* the salt of tin does imply distilling off
the most volitile part from it, and not neccessarily adding the traditional Burning Spirit (of wine) to it. His procedure also involved heating the
retort until fully dry then breaking it to remove the pyrophoric material. (Breaking a retort?! Heathen.)
I hope to steer the discussion in another direction: Liquid Pyrophorics, and possibly "aluminum sesquibromide ethylate" which I have seen very little
information on, other than that it explodes in contact with ethanol.
Also, a discussion on easily formed phosphorescent materials may be in order as well--Barium Sulfide is a fairly well known one discovered by the
alchemists, another one of interest which I came across in my reading of all-things-alchemical:
"He had made a solution of chalk in nitric acid, and distilled it to dryness, then exposed the resulting calcium nitrate to air and moisture,
and as it is deliquescent, it absorbed water and turned into a liquid. He believed the water distilled from this was the 'spiritus mundi'. When
overheated the calcium nitrate became a yellow substance which shone in the dark after exposure to sunlight. Balduin sent an account of his discovery
and a specimen of the 'phosphorus Balduini' to the Royal Society in 1676, and for this was elected a Fellow of the Society."
In addition, a slightly interesting and surprisingly clear process on making an "Everlasting Fire":
"Hearuppon followeth the process & practica.
Take 4 unces of sulphur, & so much of calcyned alume, bruise them together, put it into an earthen sublimatorie, place it into a coale fier, well
lited, let the sulphur ascend through the Alume, and in 8 houres is it prepared.
Thearof take at the lesse 2 1/2 unces, and one unce of good christallick venetian porras, bruse them two small togeather, put it into a flat glasse
that it may lye flatly, poure uppon it a stronge sharpe 4 times distilled spirit of wine uppon it, & extracte it in ashes sofftly to the oyle,
poure it uppon again, extracte it to the oyle, poure it uppon again & drawe it of agayne; take a litle of the sulphure, laye it uppon a red hott
copper plate, and when it floweth like wax without smoking then is it prepared, if not then must thou extract theareof more of the spirit of wine,
till it sustineth the proove & it is prepared.
Nowe take alumephume, make therof a top not as long as a little finger, and halfe as thicke, foulde it about with whyte silke, put it thus whole into
a venetian little glasse, & joyne thearunto of the prepared sulphure, place it a day & night in hott sande, that the top be continually in the
sulphur. Nowe take the top thearout, and put it into such a glasse, that the top looke out a little, adde thearunto of the prepared incombustible
chyburals, place the glasse into hott sand till the sulphure melteth, and cleaveth beneath and upward about the top, that it be seene but a little
above, kindle the top with a common light, & it beginneth to burne presently, and the sulphure remaineth flowing, take the light and place it
wheare you wilt, and it burneth continually for ever."
[Edited on 5-8-2008 by ShadowWarrior4444]
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d010060002
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shadow warrior, you post got me interested in liquid pyrophorics. I've been looking into them, and most seem beyond the abilities of a home chemist to
produce. I've made solid and gas pyrophorics, but i don't think i can manage a liquid one. I was wondering if anyone knew a fairly easy way to make a
solid pyrophoric. I've made Pyrophoric iron, and I know a bout phosphorus, but I was wondering if people had made any other inorganic ones like TiCl2
or something, and if so, how?
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The WiZard is In
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Quote: Originally posted by d010060002  | | shadow warrior, you post got me interested in liquid pyrophorics. I've been looking into them, and most seem beyond the abilities of a home chemist to
produce. I've made solid and gas pyrophorics, but i don't think i can manage a liquid one. I was wondering if anyone knew a fairly easy way to make a
solid pyrophoric. I've made Pyrophoric iron, and I know a bout phosphorus, but I was wondering if people had made any other inorganic ones like TiCl2
or something, and if so, how? |
Noted in passing —
HANDBOOK OF SELECTED PROPERTIES OF AIR- AND WATER-REACTIVE MATERIALS
Personal Author: Gibson, Jack R Weber, Jeanne D
Corporate Author: NAVAL AMMUNITION DEPOT CRANE IN
Source Code: 247250
Page Count: 226 page(s)
AD Number: AD0688422
Report Date: 01 MAR 1969
Distribution Code: 01 - APPROVED FOR PUBLIC RELEASE 23 -
AVAILABILITY: DOCUMENT PARTIALLY ILLEGIBLE
Report Classification: U - Unclassified
Collection: Technical Reports
http://tinyurl.com/2bul2fh
Click upon - View TR Citation.
Byda - There is no index, however, someone has posted one
on la net, you will have to search for it.
Byda too - Vol. 2 of Mellor's opus in on Google.com/books,
with volume 1, however, it is v/v difficult to find.
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The WiZard is In
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| Quote: Originally posted by ShadowWarrior4444 |
He describes a method of producing "Alchemical Fire in a Flask" with the properties: Liquid, that when exposed to air lights on fire, but when
stoppered/removed from air ceases burning. Upon re-exposure, it ignites again.
Has anyone heard of this mixture, or perhaps other substances exhibiting similar properties? |
Alchemical fire in a flask
http://levity.com/alchemy/alchfire.html
Site has a bunch of other stuff.
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