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Blaster
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Ruthenium Tetroxide
Does anyone out there have any experience of RuO4? Its a rare example of a +8 oxidation state and is consequently a powerful explosive.
3K2RuO4 + 2 KMnO4 + 4 H2SO4 = 3 RuO4 + 4 K2SO4 + 2 MnO2.H2O + 4 H2O
Its a yellow solid/liquid, melting at 25'C and smells like Ozone. Unfortunately its very poisonous. It boils at about 100'C but detonates at
that temperature!
Here's a quote from a Victorian text book:
"In the year 1875 Deville and Debray endevoured to distil 150 grams of this liquid; an evolution of gas began at 108', and a few moments
afterwards a frightful explosion occurred, the whole laboratory being filled with a strong smell of ozone, and a black soot-like smoke"
Should give some interesting reactions with organics, never tried it myself though!!!
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vulture
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Ehm, I don't want to shoot your idea down, but have you got any idea what Ruthenium costs? The price is insane!
One shouldn't accept or resort to the mutilation of science to appease the mentally impaired.
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I am a fish
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According to principalmetals.com, ruthenium costs about US$30 per gram. That's about twice the cost of gold.
1f `/0u (4|\\| |234d 7|-|15, `/0u |234||`/ |\\|33d 70 937 0u7 /\\/\\0|23.
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Blaster
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Guess not then! Ru salts are expensive (less so than the pure metal) but where there's a will there's a way! ;o)
Hasn't stopped me making fulminating Gold and various explosive silver salts in the past!
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The_Davster
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What did you think of the sensitivity of gold fulminate compared to silver and mercury fulminate?
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Mumbles
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Fulminating gold is not the same thing as gold fulminate. Fulminating gold is actually hydrated gold nitride from a reference I have. It explodes
easily from heat and flame, often blowing a hole through the heating spoon. It was first made back in the days of the alchemists. They were probably
experimenting with it on how to turn other things into gold.
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The_Davster
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thanks mumbles, I feared that they werent the same when i posted. what is this reference (a synth like that is a bit above me still but i collect all
the chemistry info I can)
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Blaster
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Mumbles is right. Fulminating silver and gold are just archaic names for the nitrides. They are easily made from the metal oxide and conc. ammonia
soln - heat gently until most of the water has evaporated then allow to air dry.
Both are quite powerful, difficult to say if Gold is more so than silver, but the Gold version is more sensitive (as expected). I've haven't
made the Gold compound in 'large' amounts due to cost, but 2g of Silver nitride blew the bottom out of a nickel crucible and coated it with
black (presumably metallic) silver dust! The Gold compound leaves a pinkish residue!
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chloric1
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Wow
Hey if you could do some controlled pyro studies with RhO4 and somehow collect all or most of the precious metal residues, you could recycle it and
hopefully continuiously reuse it. Get you money's worth. Maybe perform the detonations in a large improvised bell jar and collect the "
black dust" and reoxidize it with the cheap KMnO4
Fellow molecular manipulator
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The_Davster
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That heating would have to be on a hot plate i assume(as oposed to a burner). But at what temp would the nitride detonate in the solution.
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Blaster
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Recyclable explosives - I like it!
When making the metal nitrides, you should be safe, even with a bunsen, as long as you don't let it boil dry - the water and ammonia evaporation
keeps it below 100'C and therefore below the detonation temperature.
You do need to heat for some time - just boiling briefly isn't enough. My first attempts with the Silver compound failed cos I just boiled it dry
with a bunsen within a few seconds. Just as well really!!!
For best results, heat the metal oxide and ammonia on a temperature controlled hot plate at a low heat and add extra ammonia soln two or three times
but don't let it dry out between additions!
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unionised
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The product formed from ammonia, alkali and silver nitrate (or from ammonia and silver oxide) is quite capable of exploding without needing to heat it
or dry it.
Please be a bit careful
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guaguanco
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Note that Ruthenium is also really, really toxic.
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unionised
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How? It's virtually innert.
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guaguanco
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| Quote: | Originally posted by unionised
How? It's virtually innert. |
I misstated; Ruthenium Tetroxide is toxic.
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unionised
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Thanks for reminding those of us who had forgotten since the 4th sentence of the first post in the thread (5th if you count the equation).
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AndersHoveland
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Ruthenium tetraoxide is a really interesting compound, it is very unfortunate that Ruthenium is so expensive.
The interesting thing about Ruthenium is that the Ru+3 salts can easily be oxidized to RuO4, by using bromate or periodate, even under alkaline
conditions. Bromates and periodates are relatively unreactive (unless acidified), yet RuO4 is a very reactive oxidizer. Small quantities of ruthenium
salts can thus actually be used as a catalyst, allowing alkaline periodates to oxidize hydrocarbons.
One source states that RuO4 has a reduction potential of 0.59v.
Periodate has a reduction potential of 0.70v under alkaline conditions, and 1.60v under acidic conditions. It seems that while RuO4 is only a "weak"
oxidizer, it is also an unusually reactive oxidizer.
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quantumcorespacealchemyst
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Bromide
how is it transformable into a Halide?
with 7ml ~8%Bleach and a .543g Ru powder, it seemed only the chloride would form, so I added 2.519g NaBr.
I have kept it cold and it is still unreacted but emits the smell of Ruthenium Tetroxide. I am wondering how to keep
all the Ruthenium in a halide state.
most of the Ruthenium powder, or what seems to be, is separated by decanting.
it is grey, like the original Ruthenium.
[Edited on 10-3-2015 by quantumcorespacealchemyst]
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Texium
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Please stop wasting your money
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quantumcorespacealchemyst
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maybe ~$10 of Ruthenium
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quantumcorespacealchemyst
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I have been putting small amounts of bleach and Ruthenium together. The dissolution seems to take a long time and it stay dark olive black. I haven't
seen red yet. It is stored chilled. I don't want to boil it yet, I am hoping it reacts.
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woelen
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Ruthenium can be dissolved in bleach, but you need heating. You get an olive-green solution of perruthenate, but this solution turns red after a while
with evolution of oxygen. The red solution is of ruthenate. It might also be that you immediately get some brown solution, which is a mix of ruthenate
and perruthenate. Anyhow, after a day or so, you will have bright red ruthenate left in solution.
You might find this interesting: http://woelen.homescience.net/science/chem/exps/ruthenium/in...
This experiment shows making of RuO4, but does not isolate it. It does show its volatility.
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j_sum1
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Ok woelen. Is there any chemistry that you haven't done?
You are a mine of information for intriguing elements and compounds. Many elements for most people are just a box and a symbol on a chart. For you
they are things you have handled, performed experiments on, and are intimately familiar with their properties.
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quantumcorespacealchemyst
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thanks.
will time in coldness cause a reaction eventually?
If heating, how are vapors neutralized ( of RuO4)?
[Edited on 14-3-2015 by quantumcorespacealchemyst]
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woelen
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Quote: Originally posted by j_sum1  | Ok woelen. Is there any chemistry that you haven't done?
You are a mine of information for intriguing elements and compounds. Many elements for most people are just a box and a symbol on a chart. For you
they are things you have handled, performed experiments on, and are intimately familiar with their properties. |
There are a few elements with which I have done no experimenting or very limited experimenting:
- osmium
- thorium
- uranium
- rhodium
- a few lanthanides
- noble gases
All other elements I have used in experiments and for most of them I have web pages on my website 
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