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Author: Subject: Where does electromagnetic radiation come form?
dolimitless
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[*] posted on 21-6-2009 at 13:03
Where does electromagnetic radiation come form?


Does it all start from the sun, traveling to earth, that powers all the chemical processes that release electromagnetic radiation to power everyday life?
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[*] posted on 21-6-2009 at 13:10


Quote: Originally posted by dolimitless  
Does it all start from the sun, traveling to earth, that powers all the chemical processes that release electromagnetic radiation to power everyday life?
No.
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[*] posted on 21-6-2009 at 13:21


Earth's magnetic field is produced by the hot iron core of our planet.
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[*] posted on 21-6-2009 at 13:26


Electromagnetic radiation is formed when an electron drops from a higher orbital level to a lower one with the frequency emited being determined by the level of the drop.




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[*] posted on 21-6-2009 at 14:24


Quote: Originally posted by Sedit  
Electromagnetic radiation is formed when an electron drops from a higher orbital level to a lower one with the frequency emited being determined by the level of the drop.


And what causes it to go from the lower energy level to the higher energy level in the first place? Is it not by heat, collisions (cause by an increase in heat?) or excitation by exisitng photons?
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[*] posted on 21-6-2009 at 14:30


I think I found the correct answer, so perhaps I was partially correct to a certain extent:?

The main source of electromagnetic energy is the sun, but man-made sources account for large amounts of the electromagnetic radiation in our day-to-day environment. Items such as hairdryers, electrical ovens, fluorescent lights, microwave ovens, stereos, wireless phones and computers produce electromagnetic fields of varying intensities. Any object with a temperature above absolute zero (-273° Celsius) radiates (emits) this type of energy to their surrounding environment.
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[*] posted on 22-6-2009 at 18:24


Electromagnetic radiation is IMHO a misnomer. A more correct name for it would be Electronic Radiation(again, IMHO), not in the common sense of Electroinc devices, but in the sense of Electrons. Electronic radiation occurs when an electron is forced into a higher energy level. It is not stable at that level, and thus decays by releasing a photon or a series of photons(see additional info under the edit) untill it reaches the first energy level that is either half filled or has a filled one directly below it, with the first rule having lower priority than the second one(ie. If there are 2 filled and 2 half-filled energy levels for the electron to occupy,it will fill the half filled one closest to the filled one and thus the nucleus, and thus the lowest possible energy state.). At this point the Pauli Exclusion Principle stabilizes the electron such that no further radiation is emitted.

EDIT:

The amount of levels jumped down determines the freqeuncy of the radiation, ie. if an electron drops sixty levels at once, it's a gamma ray, if it drops ten at a time it's a radio ray. (I pulled those numbers out of my ass, and they ARE incorrect & only useful as a hypothetical device to iluustrate the basic concept)

[Edited on 23-6-2009 by The Fountain of Discordia]




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[*] posted on 25-3-2010 at 08:35


Electromagnetic radiation comes from accelarating charged particles. Take an electron or proton and accelerate it, it radiates. Wiggle it back and forth (basically accelerating it over and over), and it radiates continously. That's how a radio works -- literally by wiggling electrons in the anntenae back and forth.

You can also get radiation from simply heating something up. Think of the glowing you see from very hot metal. Google "blackbody radiation" for an explaination -- this one played a very important part in the history of physics.

If you mean what causes the background radiation we are all bathing in, it's a combination of the sun and man-made sources. Which is the larger contributer depends on wavelength -- I believe that in the RF range, the Earth outshines the sun, thanks to humans, but don't quote me on that. The man-made radiation is ultimately powered by one of two sources: trapped solar energy in chemical or other form, or nuclear energy from fissable/fusable elements in the Earth's crust. Geothermal counts as the latter variety -- hot rocks keep the core of the earth warm, not the sun. There is also a component to background noise that comes from the rest of the universe -- everything from other stars to echos from the big bang.

As for the name, it's called "Electromagnetic" radation because both field types are present -- changing electric fields lie perpendicular to changing magnetic fields. One causes the other, over and over. It's as close as you will ever get to perpetual motion in nature, and the speed that one reacts with the other determines the speed of light -- in essense defining the very concept of time as we know it.
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[*] posted on 3-10-2020 at 17:06


Quote: Originally posted by setback  
Earth's magnetic field is produced by the hot iron core of our planet.


after milions of years how iron is hot in the core????

If I put an iron piece red hot in the summer hot sun the iron cold anyway in a few minutes...
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[*] posted on 3-10-2020 at 17:38


Quote: Originally posted by pneumatician  
Quote: Originally posted by setback  
Earth's magnetic field is produced by the hot iron core of our planet.


after milions of years how iron is hot in the core????

If I put an iron piece red hot in the summer hot sun the iron cold anyway in a few minutes...


Things cool down more quickly at the surface than the centre. Also, the earth has lots of radioactive elements, which give off heat as they decay, slowing down the cooling of the earth (as was explained to Lord Kelvin a century or two ago).




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[*] posted on 3-10-2020 at 18:53


My brain breaks every time I try to wrap my head around fields. I was a radio tech in the USMC in the early 80's--I can build a good antenna from scratch, but how in the HELL does the EMF just gooooo from a resonant element?@!*%?





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[*] posted on 3-10-2020 at 23:03


In my head, mind you, it's more and more like a newton's cradle, you know thebstrung up balls what transfer energy to the ends, as you approach a resonate length/dimension of the antenna. They are bopped off relative to the field strength on the particular cycle. So in effect, don't you load the electron cloud like a spring, and release it to leave them wobble about viciously. In unison. Why your driven element is proportional to reflective and dead/passive elements in dimensions and spacing. Participating in steering the field bound in metal sticks.

Well that's one viewpoint I guess. My father is a ham operator. It's not always easy understanding the stuff he's learned. It was arrived at from different approaches to the same idea, than I can relate to from my knowledge base. But I try lol
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[*] posted on 4-10-2020 at 19:22


Quote: Originally posted by DraconicAcid  
Earth's magnetic field is produced by the hot iron core of our planet. [/rquote]

after milions of years how iron is hot in the core????

If I put an iron piece red hot in the summer hot sun the iron cold anyway in a few minutes...[/rquote]

Things cool down more quickly at the surface than the centre. Also, the earth has lots of radioactive elements, which give off heat as they decay, slowing down the cooling of the earth (as was explained to Lord Kelvin a century or two ago).


you really believe this? :.)

After MILIONS of years iron is in red hot state including some glacial epochs? ok guy.

hey, of course, everyone is free to believe in their own disneyland, good luck :)
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[*] posted on 4-10-2020 at 22:54


Quote: Originally posted by pneumatician  
Quote: Originally posted by DraconicAcid  
Earth's magnetic field is produced by the hot iron core of our planet. [/rquote]

after milions of years how iron is hot in the core????

If I put an iron piece red hot in the summer hot sun the iron cold anyway in a few minutes...[/rquote]

Things cool down more quickly at the surface than the centre. Also, the earth has lots of radioactive elements, which give off heat as they decay, slowing down the cooling of the earth (as was explained to Lord Kelvin a century or two ago).


you really believe this? :.)

After MILIONS of years iron is in red hot state including some glacial epochs? ok guy.

hey, of course, everyone is free to believe in their own disneyland, good luck :)


Do you have any idea how thick the world is?




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[*] posted on 5-10-2020 at 01:15


AFAIK the core is continuously heated by radioactive decay of heavy isotopes and heat loss is reduced by the mantle.
The greenhouse effect also helps to keep Earth warm.

If the core were not liquid there would be no tectonic plate movements.




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[*] posted on 5-10-2020 at 09:10


Without a dynamo in the core we wouldn't have this and would have all been fried by the solar wind.



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shocked.gif posted on 5-10-2020 at 09:51


Quote: Originally posted by pneumatician  


you really believe this? :.)

After MILIONS of years iron is in red hot state including some glacial epochs? ok guy.

hey, of course, everyone is free to believe in their own disneyland, good luck :)


Unexpected ignorance in this forum. :O

Try to put Your hot piece of iron within several thousands km thick molten rock and see how many minutes it will take too cool off. When that is done add radioactivity and huge pressure. See what happens. (You can do this in Your mind, of course. Just comprehend the actual size of this planet.)

It also does not get freezing cold even few meters under ground, not even in harsh winters, hence - basements, where people keep all their deliciousness so they won't freeze. Earth is not the best conductor of heat.

And it is billions, not millions of years.




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[*] posted on 5-10-2020 at 12:26


Its been known for some time from deep mines and bore holes that the ground temperature increases with depth. That increase with depth of about 25C per kilometer suggested the core of the earth is at thousands of degrees.

Temperature_schematic_of_inner_Earth.jpg - 74kB

From: https://energyeducation.ca/encyclopedia/Geothermal_gradient#:~:text=The%20Earth%20gets%20hotter%20as,Earth's%20temperature%20increases%20with%20depth. &text=On%20average%2C%20the%20temperature%20increases,for%20every%20kilometer%20of%20depth.

At the usual depth of cellars, near surface caves or mines the temperature is close to the average surface temperature ie warm in winter or even at night and cool in summer or during the day, a lot like a thick walled stone cottage.

Its also known from seismology that the core is mostly liquid because only compression waves from earthquakes and underground explosions pass through it.


[Edited on 10/5/2020 by wg48temp9]




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[*] posted on 5-10-2020 at 18:30


expected parroting of the official bullshit in this forum. :-D

exist many other theories, nobody can prove the official shit so any other theorie have the equal value no matter from who come from if from a sacred cow or a illiterate as long as it sounds consistent, logical, and reasonable. if you do not want or can accept them is your problem.
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[*] posted on 5-10-2020 at 19:20


Quote: Originally posted by pneumatician  
expected parroting of the official bullshit in this forum. :-D

exist many other theories, nobody can prove the official shit so any other theorie have the equal value no matter from who come from if from a sacred cow or a illiterate as long as it sounds consistent, logical, and reasonable. if you do not want or can accept them is your problem.


Such bravery in the face of the scientific establishment! Why don't you tackle the atomic theory of matter, and come up with a new alternative to that?




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[*] posted on 6-10-2020 at 06:15


Quote: Originally posted by pneumatician  
expected parroting of the official bullshit in this forum. :-D

exist many other theories, nobody can prove the official shit so any other theorie have the equal value no matter from who come from if from a sacred cow or a illiterate as long as it sounds consistent, logical, and reasonable. if you do not want or can accept them is your problem.



There is evidence and conclusions can be made based on it. If You think science is about fooling people, I am afraid You are registered in wrong forum.

If You have any cool ideas go ahead, spill them, we can discuss. If You cannot comprehend something it does not mean it is false. You have not spent a dime of Your time researching this topic, and You think that people, that has spent most of their lives researching Earths structure are wrong, based on a piece of metal You heated once. And thousands of scientists that do this every day are not complaining about these facts.

It is completely OK to not know things, but You keep Your uneducated guesses to Your self or make it clear, that is Your uneducated guess. You can ask questions and be skeptical, I encourage that.

A nice explanatory video for You to check out, find out how measurements are made. Do Your own research from sources with references. Please.




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[*] posted on 6-10-2020 at 06:42


where do these trolls come from? yeah you, pneumatician

*edit* a good way to avoid the "official bullshit" would be to NOT log in maybe?

[Edited on 10-6-2020 by arkoma]




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[*] posted on 6-10-2020 at 12:22


Quote: Originally posted by pneumatician  
expected parroting of the official bullshit in this forum. :-D

exist many other theories, nobody can prove the official shit so any other theorie have the equal value no matter from who come from if from a sacred cow or a illiterate as long as it sounds consistent, logical, and reasonable. if you do not want or can accept them is your problem.


Curios about your theory on volcanoes? How they form, where does all that molten rock come from?
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[*] posted on 6-10-2020 at 20:47


Quote: Originally posted by B(a)P  

Curios about your theory on volcanoes? How they form, where does all that molten rock come from?


Volcanoes are all either at or near tectonic plate boundaries or above plumes of hot rock in the mantle (so-called "hotspots").

The boundary variety come about because one plate has collided with another and is "diving" beneath it. This is called subduction. The plate being subducted is under the ocean, and the plate it is subducting under is continental crust. The oceanic plate thus carries lots of water with it. This water acts to reduce the melting point of the rocks being carried down. The flowing rock of the plate is solid at first, and it doesn't melt until it has been carried some distance under the continental plate.

Once the rock has been brought deep enough, though, some of it does liquify forming magma. This magma has lower density than the still solid rock around it, so it slowly begins to rise through the rock of the overlying continental margin. Eventually it rises so far that it exerts enough pressure on the thinning crust to form cracks and erupt to the surface. The first lava flows at the surface begin to create the body of a classic conical volcano. The details differ depending on the exact chemistry of the rocks melted to form the magma, but this is why active volcanoes are found mostly on the margins of continents. Mt St Helens is a prime example.

The other type of volcano is responsible for building up new islands in ocean plates travelling over those mantle plume hotspots mentioned earlier. Their geochemistry is such that they form shield volcanoes where the magma has much lower viscosity and spreads more horizontally than is the case with continental volcanoes. The Hawaiian Island chain is a good example which illustrates that the hotspot plume responsible seems to stay more or less stationary while the marine plate travels over it, leaving a chain of extinct island volcanoes no longer directly above the plume.
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[*] posted on 7-10-2020 at 00:28


Quote: Originally posted by Gearhead_Shem_Tov  
Quote: Originally posted by B(a)P  

Curios about your theory on volcanoes? How they form, where does all that molten rock come from?


Volcanoes are all either at or near tectonic plate boundaries or above plumes of hot rock in the mantle (so-called "hotspots").

The boundary variety come about because one plate has collided with another and is "diving" beneath it. This is called subduction. The plate being subducted is under the ocean, and the plate it is subducting under is continental crust. The oceanic plate thus carries lots of water with it. This water acts to reduce the melting point of the rocks being carried down. The flowing rock of the plate is solid at first, and it doesn't melt until it has been carried some distance under the continental plate.

Once the rock has been brought deep enough, though, some of it does liquify forming magma. This magma has lower density than the still solid rock around it, so it slowly begins to rise through the rock of the overlying continental margin. Eventually it rises so far that it exerts enough pressure on the thinning crust to form cracks and erupt to the surface. The first lava flows at the surface begin to create the body of a classic conical volcano. The details differ depending on the exact chemistry of the rocks melted to form the magma, but this is why active volcanoes are found mostly on the margins of continents. Mt St Helens is a prime example.

The other type of volcano is responsible for building up new islands in ocean plates travelling over those mantle plume hotspots mentioned earlier. Their geochemistry is such that they form shield volcanoes where the magma has much lower viscosity and spreads more horizontally than is the case with continental volcanoes. The Hawaiian Island chain is a good example which illustrates that the hotspot plume responsible seems to stay more or less stationary while the marine plate travels over it, leaving a chain of extinct island volcanoes no longer directly above the plume.


Thanks, that is also the understanding I had :-). I posed the question in response to the claim from @pneumatician that the centre of the earth is not hot.
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