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Author: Subject: Metal nitrates - the easy way
AngelEyes
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[*] posted on 2-5-2006 at 06:43


Going to resurrect an earlier thread rather than start a new one.

I have some Copper Nitrate and Barium Chloride. I am trying to precipitate Barium Nitrate from an aqueous solution of the two.

The equation I have is

Cu(NO<sub>3</sub>;)<sub>2</sub> + BaCl2 --> CuCl2 + Ba(NO<sub>3</sub>;)<sub>2</sub>

Barium Nitrate (8.2g/100ml water @ 20c) has a much lower solubility in water than Copper II chloride (42.6g/100ml water @ 20c) so I am expecting it to precipitate out. Is this feasible or am I way off track here?
I have used a stoichiometirc ratio of materials.

I want the Barium Nitrate for use in green lances and portfires, the BaCl2 just doesn't cut it. Also, the Copper Nitrate is green, I am assuming it's a tri-hydrate - .3H<sub>2</sub>O?

Thanks


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[*] posted on 2-5-2006 at 10:45


If your copper nitrate is green, then it is not pure. I also have copper nitrate, and it is a beautiful crystalline glittering solid, bright blue, even nicer blue than copper sulfate. Its solutions also are nice blue.

Don't you have any other nitrates around? If you have ammonium nitrate from fertilizer (possibly mixed with chalk), then you can use that. Just dissolve in as little as possible of water and let stand for a day. All crap settles and then you can mix that very concentrated solution of ammonium nitrate with your barium chloride solution.

KNO3 also may do the job, but it is somewhat less soluble. NaNO3 is very soluble, but I do not recommend that, because your product will always contain a little amount of the sodium ions. These produce very strong orange/yellow light and certainly will spoil your compositions. Traces of potassium ions or ammonium ions, however, do not really harm.




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AngelEyes
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[*] posted on 3-5-2006 at 01:24
Actually...


...my Copper Nitrate <i>is</i> blue. Not sure why I put it as green. It's large, clumpy blue crystals. Looks like blue quartz.

I do have Sodium Nitrate but don't want the pollution from Na. I have no other Nitrates, but I figured this reaction would proceed OK with the materials I have.

I have some precipitate drying, it has a slightly greenish tinge though this could be contamination with Copper Chloride I s'pose. I'll see how it dries then try some flame tests to try and determine what I have.

Cheers


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[*] posted on 11-5-2006 at 09:42


Right...so I have a quantity of a light-turquoise powder after filtration. It's taken ages to dry but seems non-hygroscopic now that it is dry.

If I try a standard flame test on it, it just melts and turns black. There's a tinge of greeny-blue...but that's hardly conclusive. I guess I must have a mix of compounds in there or something.

If I mix with sulphur and try to ignite it, it turns black and I can see the dance of the light blue sulphur flame on top...then it eventually ignites with a bright white, plus a hint of green, flame. It burns slow and leaves a black residue. Maybe sulphur isn't the best fuel to use here.


One odd thing is that when the powder was not quite dry and I mixed in a little hexamine it turned a sandy beige colour before my very eyes. Still didn't burn well though...




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[*] posted on 11-5-2006 at 15:35


Hexamine is an amine with lone pairs. The Cu<sup>2+</sup> ions probably got bound to these.



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[*] posted on 31-5-2006 at 17:06


Quote:
Originally posted by IodineForLunch
Where could one purchase lithium carbonate? None of my pyro chemical suppliers carry it.

David Hansen


http://unitednuclear.com/chem.htm




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AngelEyes
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[*] posted on 9-6-2006 at 04:30
Found some Ammonium Nitrate...


...in a Calcium multi action fertiliser. Seems it's a mix of Ammonium Nitrate (about 80%) and chalk or other calcium compound. It's assay says it contains both nitric and ammoniacal nitrogen, as well as a soluble calcium compound.

I added about 500ml of water to the 750g contents which I figure will dissolve all the nitrate nicely. It does, and I am left with some undissolved crap. I filter this off to leave a nice, clear solution of what must be mostly Ammonium Nitrate. I add some Ammonium Sulphate to precipatate any Calcium Nitrate out but there's no reaction so I figure I have quite pure Ammonium Nitrate solution with no dissolved calcium ions. I then add some concentrated Barrium Chloride solution and get a precipitate fairly soon. I leave this for a while, then come back and filter off what I presume must be fairly pure Barium Nitrate.

However, after drying and trying to ignite with various fuels I get hardly any reaction at all.

Do you reckon I have a mix of Barium Nitrate and Ammonium Chloride rather than mostly just the barium nitrate?
Have I got my equations / solubilities wrong?
Is Barium Nitrate just a real PITA to make by this method?
Should I redissolve (or re-wash) the solid I have?

I can do a good red fire, as well as yellow, white, purple-ish and orange. Blue is hit and miss anyway, but green <i>should</i> be quite straightforward dammit! I use Strontium Carbonate for the reds and it's really good - is Barium Carbonate equally good for greens or can you really use only the nitrate or (per)chlorate?

Beofre anyone mentions Skylighter <i>et al</i>, be aware that I am in the UK and we have a nanny state. Plus, I am quite skint and so would prefer to use what I currently have.

Cheers for any pointers


AngelEyes.




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[*] posted on 9-6-2006 at 11:32


I have good results making barium nitrate in a similar way (from a less concentrated fertilizer also containing potassium sulfate and calcium phosphate). The sulfate is precipitated with Ba and washed, then excess Ba is added to form Ba(NO3)2 on evaporation. It forms regular, coarse crystals with a hopper tendency.

Er.. um... hummm... did you happen to think that your ammonium sulfate would be causing the barium to precipitate!?

My product burns in starts with magnalium, being a basic strobe comp. Bright greenish light.

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AngelEyes
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[*] posted on 12-6-2006 at 03:23


Quote:

Er.. um... hummm... did you happen to think that your ammonium sulfate would be causing the barium to precipitate!?



Well, no - I added the Ammonium Sulphate in the first step to precipitate out any Calcium ions that may have been there -, but now that you mention it any soluble suplahte <i>would</i> ppt out any Barium in solution wouldn't it? But I added the sulphate before any Barium Chloride goes near the solution, got no ppt so assumed that all the Calcium was the insoluble crap I filtered off.

I hav another batch drying that used excess Ammonium Nitrate solution. I will dry the hell out of it then try again with other fuels...like sugar maybe.

Cheers


AngelEyes

[Edited on 12-6-2006 by AngelEyes]




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[*] posted on 14-11-2012 at 15:23
strontium, manganese, lithium nitrates


i had some success isolating strontium nitrate from strontium carbonate and ammonium nitrate, but the procedure is slow. see my post here.

with manganese it seems to proceed analogously, but i wasn't able to isolate the manganese nitrate due to it's good solubility.

i'm currently making lithium nitrate. the carbonate has some solubility, and this reaction appears to work much faster, and the ammonia evolution to be much stronger. i improvised a distillation setup and am now recovering quite concentrated ammonia solution. more details to follow.
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