Sciencemadness Discussion Board » Fundamentals » Chemistry in General » Should I get rid of my H2SO4? Select A Forum Fundamentals   » Chemistry in General   » Organic Chemistry   » Reagents and Apparatus Acquisition   » Beginnings   » Responsible Practices   » Miscellaneous   » The Wiki Special topics   » Technochemistry   » Energetic Materials   » Biochemistry   » Radiochemistry   » Computational Models and Techniques   » Prepublication Non-chemistry   » Forum Matters   » Legal and Societal Issues   » Detritus   » Test Forum

Pages:  1  2
Author: Subject: Should I get rid of my H2SO4?
Panache
International Hazard

Posts: 1116
Registered: 18-10-2007
Member Is Offline

Mood: Green is not a creative colour

if you're confused because of the 20+ well intentioned replies i can make up a spreadsheet for detailing what was suggested, you could correlate this with the ratings of the posters to help you choose what you should do. Then over the years as different things work or fail you could update the correlation with the new data and post your observations.

Or you could do what you have intended and stated, that is
keep 500mL and sell the rest as is, you can always buy more if needed.

mewrox99
National Hazard

Posts: 321
Registered: 7-6-2010
Location: New Zealand
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

I tried selling it on trade, it didn't sell probably because it's pick up only

If anyone is interested in buying the H2SO4 of me and live in Wellington, NZ send me a U2U. My price is ~$35-$40

barbs09
Hazard to Self

Posts: 93
Registered: 22-1-2009
Location: Australia
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

One way to get rid of it:

Buy 50kg of sugar put in barrel...you know the rest. Make a monument to rival the aesthetic qualities of the beehive

The Beehive is the NZ Parliament building in Wellington if you wondered WTF I was on about.

[Edited on 20-8-2010 by barbs09]
Ephoton
National Hazard

Posts: 463
Registered: 21-7-2005
Member Is Offline

Mood: trying to figure out why I need a dark room retreat when I live in a forest of wattle.

go blow something up barbs

pill of crap damb it thats low.

ahh things back to norm.

progress is made and we still havent taken over the

free thinking christian world.

god damb it I thought all you bomb dudes were terrorists.

they might even think there making it all up to sell shampoo on tv next

bash-2.05#

Pyro
International Hazard

Posts: 1305
Registered: 6-4-2012
Location: Gent, Belgium
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

thats a bit much, i paid 35 NZD for 5l of it. try taking out a litre or so, and sell the remaining 4l for about 25-35 NZD
you will you kicking yourself if you sell it and need more...
but there is no reason to be scared, i live on a boat (www.thecanalbarge.com)
and i'm absolutely non-worried bout keeping my gallon containers of acids here. i just put them in a square plastic box and forget about them.
if you still want to sell it, then tell all your friends you have it and offer to sell it to them for a good price. for drain cleaner or whatever

all above information is intellectual property of Pyro.
gutter_ca
Hazard to Others

Posts: 173
Registered: 7-6-2010
Location: California
Member Is Offline

Mood: Bored at work!

 Quote: Originally posted by Pyro thats a bit much, i paid 35 NZD for 5l of it. try taking out a litre or so, and sell the remaining 4l for about 25-35 NZD you will you kicking yourself if you sell it and need more... but there is no reason to be scared, i live on a boat (www.thecanalbarge.com) and i'm absolutely non-worried bout keeping my gallon containers of acids here. i just put them in a square plastic box and forget about them. if you still want to sell it, then tell all your friends you have it and offer to sell it to them for a good price. for drain cleaner or whatever

I kinda hope he's done whatever he was going to do with it after TWO YEARS.

Pyro
International Hazard

Posts: 1305
Registered: 6-4-2012
Location: Gent, Belgium
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

yeah, noticed that too late, might help the next person though

all above information is intellectual property of Pyro.
AJKOER
International Hazard

Posts: 2861
Registered: 7-5-2011
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

With kids around (or trying to sell your house), I would bury it in your garden until they are in college, and keep a small quantity on hand.

Note, NaHSO4 is a good/safer substitute in many reactions.

Also, consider making something useful with the acid like Al2(SO4)3 (or even FeSO4), which you may be able to sell locally.

[Edited on 2-5-2012 by AJKOER]
plante1999
International Hazard

Posts: 1937
Registered: 27-12-2010
Member Is Offline

Quote: Originally posted by Magpie
 Quote: Originally posted by Ozonelabs Dab off Sulphuric first with a tissue then wash it off to avoid double burns.

That's probably good advice. I should have said that I quickly walk over to the sink and wash it off. I've never noticed any burns.

I agree with magpie. I already got some droplets of H2SO4 on my skin, I washed it quickly with water and my skin was not harmed at all.(I respect chemicals)I manipulated many corrosive chemicals and acid in the last few years and I would say that in general I prefer to use sulfuric for safety and material durability. Sulfuric does not make fume. HCl by the way isn't harmful at all for the skin but it did make chocking fume which are really deadly for iron,steel,nickel and other metal with medium reactivity(aluminium make a protective layer) making a chloride/oxide mix.

MagicJigPipe
International Hazard

Posts: 1553
Registered: 19-9-2007
Location: USA
Member Is Offline

Mood: Suspicious

I don't mean to be insensitive or anything but, why does the girl in the picture have to have a snot bubble? Did she just not notice it? Or does it just appear that way and it's really just a scar?

It's not that it bothers me, I'm just curious.

Moving on... Every time I've had conc. H2SO4 or conc. NaOH "spilled" on me (really it's just a drop here and there or the result of touching a bottle that is covered with it) it doesn't start to hurt until a few minutes later and even then, after I rinse it off, it doesn't really leave anything but a slight red mark. Are my experiences just different or could it be my skin is somehow different? I think the former is the most likely.

"There must be no barriers to freedom of inquiry ... There is no place for dogma in science. The scientist is free, and must be free to ask any question, to doubt any assertion, to seek for any evidence, to correct any errors. ... We know that the only way to avoid error is to detect it and that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire. And we know that as long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think, free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost, and science can never regress." -J. Robert Oppenheimer
woelen

Posts: 7099
Registered: 20-8-2005
Location: Netherlands
Member Is Offline

Mood: interested

The same to me. Spilling conc. NaOH-solution does not lead to instant burn of the skin. Conc. H2SO4 is more agressive, but still, it does not burn immediately. However, within 15 seconds or so it does feel bad already, so it's definitely worse than conc. NaOH.

I even once spilled a few drops of Br2 on my skin and even that did not burn at all. It quickly evaporated and left a yellow stain, which disappeared over time.

The art of wondering makes life worth living...
Want to wonder? Look at https://woelen.homescience.net
Pyro
International Hazard

Posts: 1305
Registered: 6-4-2012
Location: Gent, Belgium
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

ouch,
isn't Br2 supposed to be really corrosive?
i think the time when you feel it depends on where you get it, because i had a 5l canister and i was going to pour it into a 1l bottle, so I was pouring it and lost my balance, i just managed to not fall, but spilt loads of it on the ground! then my neck started burning, so i went to the sink and washed it off, but i had a big red spot on my neck for weeks, but then i have spilt it on my hands as well, and theres almost no mark.

all above information is intellectual property of Pyro.
Arthur Dent
International Hazard

Posts: 541
Registered: 22-10-2010
Member Is Offline

Mood: entropic

 Quote: Originally posted by Pyro ouch, ...then my neck started burning, so i went to the sink and washed it off, but i had a big red spot on my neck for weeks, but then i have spilt it on my hands as well, and theres almost no mark.

This goes to show the various skin resistance to corrosion depending on what part of the body is exposed. Hands usually have thicker, stronger, callous skin than on your arm or your neck. I readily pull glassware with my bare hands from a pail filled with a 10% sol of HCl with no ill effect, (I do rinse immediately though) but if some of that solution splashes on my forearm, it stings and i get a slightly reddish patch.

But still, handling any chemical is best done with gloves.

Robert

--- Art is making something out of nothing and selling it. - Frank Zappa ---
Endimion17
International Hazard

Posts: 1468
Registered: 17-7-2011
Location: shores of a solar sea
Member Is Offline

Mood: speeding through time at the rate of 1 second per second

The rule is to quickly wipe it off (dabbing, not smearing) first, and then rinse it for few minutes with lots of running water.
The wiping is probably not neccessary for situations involving a drop on the skin being washed away after 0-5 seconds with a strong stream of cold water.

However, if the surface area is greater (palm, hand, things, feet, face), and the time to reach the emergency shower is greater than 5 seconds, you want to dab it first, trust me. Any chemical burn makes the skin very sensitive to thermal burns.
After the initial water rinse, one should spill some concentrated NaHCO3 solution on the affected area, wait a few minutes, and then rinse it off, dry it carefully and put on some skin lotion if there aren't obvious burns, of course.

DougTheMapper
Hazard to Others

Posts: 145
Registered: 20-7-2008
Location: Michigan, USA
Member Is Offline

Mood: Energetic

 Quote: Originally posted by woelen I even once spilled a few drops of Br2 on my skin and even that did not burn at all. It quickly evaporated and left a yellow stain, which disappeared over time.

The worst part about bromine burns is the awful smell of bromine lingering near the wound for a day or two.

Victor Grignard is a methylated spirit.
Pyro
International Hazard

Posts: 1305
Registered: 6-4-2012
Location: Gent, Belgium
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

i actually don't find HCl very bad, i use 23% when washing glass, cleaning other stuff, and after constantly touching it for a few mins, all that happens is that my hands feel a little rough, but that clears by the next day.
but hot H2SO4 is scary

all above information is intellectual property of Pyro.
Arthur Dent
International Hazard

Posts: 541
Registered: 22-10-2010
Member Is Offline

Mood: entropic

H<sub>2</sub>SO<sub>4</sub> is the less "scary" of all common mineral acids. It's quite stable and doesn't degrade over time if stored properly. The really awful acids are HCl and HNO<sub>3</sub>, Hydrochloric acid generates a lot of acidic mist that eats through steel and iron tools and equipment quite rapidly, and even a well-sealed bottle can't be kept for a long time without ventilation (not all of us have a ventilated acid cabinet!). I've had a HCl's bottle label literally melt away!

Nitric acid also vents oxidizing gases, but at a lower rate. Best example is the two (nearly full) 4-liter glass bottles of H<sub>2</sub>SO<sub>4</sub> and HNO<sub>3</sub>, they are both kept in a large plastic spill pan, on a metal shelf, and only above the Nitric acid bottle is there corrosion. Oh, and I bought those bottles brand new... over 25 years ago!

Robert

--- Art is making something out of nothing and selling it. - Frank Zappa ---
Swede
National Hazard

Posts: 491
Registered: 4-9-2008
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

I hate storing HNO3... A while back, I had some standard concentrated HNO3 stored in a PFA jug, one of those insanely expensive containers that look like a \$3 HDPE bottle but retail for a couple hundred bucks each, and while the bottle retained its integrity, the plastic "stiffened" for lack of a better term from the bottom up to the level of the acid. Above that, it retained its virginal flexibility. Something was going on in there... In the end, I transferred it to a 4l glass reagent jug, but replaced the cheap bakelite-like cap (it was an older bottle) with a PFA cap. I had had one of those old caps literally crumble to dust after a few years over nitric acid.

Sulfuric + HDPE, no probs.

HCl isn't too bad. One day, I was working with conc HCl, and spilled a bit on my hand. I reached for a gallon jug of water, and began to pour it over my hand in a steady stream. Then, I noticed the concrete floor beginning to foam and fizzle, and I realized I had grabbed the same jug of conc. HCl and was using it in an attempt to rinse off the tiny spill! I ran to the sink, rinsed aggressively, and expected to see a smoking skeletal hand. Instead, there was no ill effect whatsoever. The skin didn't even redden. Still, some lessons learned. If that had been any other acid...

I now wear at a minimum nitrile gloves ALL the time in my lab. And eye protection, 100% of the time, regardless of the innocence of a given procedure.

[Edited on 18-5-2012 by Swede]
mycotheologist
Hazard to Others

Posts: 154
Registered: 16-3-2012
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

I store 98% H2SO4 in HDPE containers. Thats the containers I buy them in so I'm fairly sure HDPE can resist it well enough, otherwise drain cleaner manufacturers would have a lot of lawsuits on their hands.

 Quote: Originally posted by Arthur Dent I've had a HCl's bottle label literally melt away!

What was the bottle made of? According to the chemical resistance charts, HDPE is inert to all of the hydrohalic acids. Well, the chart I saw mentioned HCl and HF so I assume it also applies to HBr and HI. Could be wrong though. I have some 40% HBr in a HDPE container out my back garden at the moment to see if it does any damage. Only been a few days so far but we'll see in a month or so.

[Edited on 18-5-2012 by mycotheologist]
Pyro
International Hazard

Posts: 1305
Registered: 6-4-2012
Location: Gent, Belgium
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

youch swede,
that must've been a scary moment, must have cost quite a bit too

all above information is intellectual property of Pyro.
DieForelle
Hazard to Self

Posts: 60
Registered: 2-2-2012
Location: East Coast
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

Sorry to bump but I have a question or two and I think it's best answered here. Hope the OP mewrox99 is still alive haha.

With this astonishing but apparently correct quote:
Most places require the pH of aqueous wastes discarded down the drainbetween 4 and 10. That means that the maximum [H+] in effluent is10^(-4) M. In order to dilute a gallon of conc. H2SO4 (ca. 36 Mpotential H+ ions) to this pH, you would need about 400,000 gallons ofwater. This is a cube of water about 37' on a side--about 10X as largeas a swimming pool.) Or, to put it another way, for each *drop* ofconc. H2SO4 you put down the drain, you'll need about 2 1/2 gallons ofwater. I sure don't have the patience to drip it down the drain thatslowly!

From doing some experiments w/food grade HCl & NaOH, I know minute quantities of these materials can hugely alter pH. I'm surprised it takes that much to dilute them though. I feel like we sometimes used sulfuric acid in my college chemistry labs without allowing a swimming pool's worth of water to rinse out the excess. (OTOH, I do remember a chemistry prof telling us that most chemistry buildings have special glass-lined waste plumbing...is that true?) But I find it odd that no one in the thread proposed an easier solution to the dilemma. As barbs09 said above, wouldn't a big pail full of sugar partly neutralize 500ml of concentrated H2SO4? Or slowly dilute it 10 to 1 in ice, and neutralize what's left with NaOH? How many hydrogen ions can occupy a given volume of space? Surely even if 10cm^3 of acid takes tens of thousands of gallons to dilute it, a similar spatial volume of a hydroxide will neutralize it?

So, to the question I was originally trying to figure out. I have some ACS-plus HCl that I diluted to 20% and stored in a amber glass bottle. I used very small amts. for some culinary experiments like inverting sugar or whatnot. (only takes a drop) This was slightly easier to get than FCC Grade (though by no means easy!*) and varies only by a couple minor specifications. Anyhow. The oddest thing is happening: the amber glass bottle, which I'm pretty sure is from Wheaton and is high quality, had a weird whiteish efflorescence near the mouth. Just covering the domed part, it doesn't run down the entire bottle. I tried to photograph it but it was barely visible anyhow. But, it's unmistakable. And, if I wipe it away with distilled water - it seems water labile/soluble, it comes back in a few weeks, even w/o opening the bottle again! It is tightly capped but not super tightly capped, I'm not using a wrench obviously. BTW I washed the new (from that place in Denver, The Science Co. IIRC) amber bottle in detergent & Ammonia, rinsed in hot tap water a few times, then vinegar, then rinsed in distilled water a couple times, before the initial dilution. Then of course I diluted w/distilled water. So I'm pretty sure it's non-bottle, non-acid, non-distilled water contamination...if that makes sense.

Some thoughts (very amateurish, that's why I'm here):
If it were HF contamination, the original bottle from Fisher would of course show that...the inside would have become etched by now. (this is assuming some horrendous scenario like my supplier ripped me off by substituting a lesser grade of material. It kinda annoyed me that the 2.5L bottle didn't have a plastic safety seal but it didn't and I assumed that was normal)

If the acid vapors were leaching iron out of the amber glass, when I wiped this stuff away there would have been at least a slight ferruginous smell; and/or the salts would not have been pure white as they were.

Maybe my fingerprints left a bit of oil near the top of the bottle, and escaping HCl slowly chlorinates these into a powdery organic peroxide of some kind?

Hoping someone who uses dilute HCL in amber glass bottles has seen this before! Thanks!

* - I don't know why resellers are so a-retentive about selling this grade of material. Anyone making meth will just go to home depot where HCl is 10X less expensive.

[Edited on 17-2-2013 by DieForelle]
DieForelle
Hazard to Self

Posts: 60
Registered: 2-2-2012
Location: East Coast
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

I thought I should post the picture after all. It's just a few milligrams of material, obviously.

btw - this is the bottle:
http://www.sciencecompany.com/Amber-Glass-Narrow-Mouth-Bottl...
Pages:  1  2

 Sciencemadness Discussion Board » Fundamentals » Chemistry in General » Should I get rid of my H2SO4? Select A Forum Fundamentals   » Chemistry in General   » Organic Chemistry   » Reagents and Apparatus Acquisition   » Beginnings   » Responsible Practices   » Miscellaneous   » The Wiki Special topics   » Technochemistry   » Energetic Materials   » Biochemistry   » Radiochemistry   » Computational Models and Techniques   » Prepublication Non-chemistry   » Forum Matters   » Legal and Societal Issues   » Detritus   » Test Forum