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Author: Subject: LET THIS SIGNAL THE END OF THE FRIDGE PUMP QUESTIONS!
peach
Bon Vivant

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 Quote: Originally posted by entropy51 What's all the yelling about? Amateurs have been cognizant of, and extensively using, fridge compressors as vacuum pumps since even I was a wee lad. Does "re-inventing the wheel" ring any bells? Sheesh. There's an old thread on this topic from 2003. Old news.

 Quote: Originally posted by IrC I think you guys are wasting your time [Edited on 12-19-2010 by IrC]

Saw the Bell Jar page, many, many moons ago. Doesn't actually discuss practical chemistry and how the pumps relate to laboratory pumps does it?

Diffusion pumps pulling a ^-23 torr vacuum.

That's pretty darn impressive, since the cold trap at CERN can only manage ^-17 mBar and interstellar space is ^-18.

Having the balls to start threads complaining about content dropping and then complaining when someone bothers sitting around working all the numbers out for other people is even more impressive.

 Quote: Originally posted by entropy51 1. Connecting the house mains current to the two proper terminals and 2. Momentarily connecting a starting capacitor across the two proper terminals with a pushbutton switch. The switch is depressed until the unit starts (a second or two) and then released. If your compressor is this simple you basically just have to identify the proper terminals and find a start capacitor of the proper rating (microfarads and voltage). The tables in that pdf should help with this. Good luck!

1.) He doesn't know which terminals are the mains terminals

2.) The pump doesn't need a capacitor, as evidenced in the PDF

Noise.

IrC
International Hazard

Posts: 2710
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Posted on 2-8-2011 at 04:28 PM by peach:

"Quote: Originally posted by IrC
"I think you guys are wasting your time"

Saw the Bell Jar page, many, many moons ago. Doesn't actually discuss practical chemistry and how the pumps relate to laboratory pumps does it?

Diffusion pumps pulling a ^-23 torr vacuum.

That's pretty darn impressive, since the cold trap at CERN can only manage ^-17 mBar and interstellar space is ^-18.

Having the balls to start threads complaining about content dropping and then complaining when someone bothers sitting around working all the numbers out for other people is even more impressive
"

Just exactly what are you talking about peach. "Having the balls to start threads complaining about content dropping"

I start a thread last year to cover the general topic of vacuum and have said nothing here, nor to you since. I did not start it complaining about anything, it had nothing to do with you or your thread. I have said nothing to you in the recent past. Yet you take a snippet from last year out of context and use it this year to say my sources are crap and I 'have the balls' to start the thread in a way which suggests to the forum you are merely defending yourself against an 'attack' of your thread and statements you made, said 'attack' which exists only in your own mind?

The links I posted I found online and were merely intended to provide a general source of reading material on the subject of vacuum. If you do not approve of what claims were made by people in the links I posted why don't you go bitch at them about it, I could care less. Are you sure your exhaust systems are working properly? I mean I would hate to see someone going schizo on us from aberrant fumes or something. Your post today implies I am somehow RIGHT NOW attacking the idea of using fridge pumps? I was using them in 1964 and for half my life as I grew up in the largest family owned refrigeration business in downtown Kansas City. I was surrounded by fridge and freezer compressors, when I was 9 I was on the rooftops of the largest buildings in the city helping install industrial systems and yes I had those monster compressors as play toys. Only in the 80's when I started building lasers did I give up on these pumps choosing to obtain better equipment.

Let us see what the context was, posted on 12-18-2010 at 10:31 PM: "I think you guys are wasting your time using these pumps unless you are looking for a distillation setup or a roughing pump. 40 mb = 30,000 microns if I did the math right. For a decent laser you need to get down to say 60 microns or lower".

Where is the error in this statement? And where is there an attack against the use of fridge pumps for general vacuum needs? Nowhere. A sane person if they were so upset with this comment would have responded to it LAST YEAR!

Not taken it out of context today to defend themselves in a purely imaginary flame war. Unless of course your entire motivation is to presently START ONE TODAY OUT OF THIN AIR. As I have said nothing recently in your thread nor towards you or any ideas you have posted I can only assume this indeed is your motivation for this recent post.

On 12-18-2010 at 11:21 PM, aonomus replied:

"I would argue the point that these setups are 'useless'. These are good for a roughing pump and/or distillation/convenience vacuum filtration pump there is nothing as cheap and sacrificial. Not everyone has access to cheap pumps from Harbor Freight either. I'd agree that a $75-100 rotary from Harbor Freight is essentially sacrificial, but if you can't get your hands on one.... For physics experiments however, I agree that these are mostly useless ." And on 12-19-2010 at 07:17 PM I replied: "No argument, this is precisely what I said in my first line. "unless you are looking for a distillation setup or a roughing pump "". In your own thread you said nothing after these posts until 1-4-2011 at 04:44 AM, and you did not even mention what I had said. One would think this was the proper time to comment on my statements if you so rabidly disagreed with them. On 2-5-2011 at 10:23 PM you finally made a post mentioning my comment: "Indeed. However this is primarily a chemistry forum, as opposed to physics, so I assumed most people would be more interested in filtration, distillation and vacuum drying. And your point about the cheap rotaries is one I made myself in the video ." I never replied again in this thread, two pages further along until now. However if I had I would have stated then they screwed up naming this place 'ScienceMadness', they should have called it 'ChemistryMadness' if I am in error to post things non chemistry related on this board. Especially since virtually everything in science I do is more high energy physics related than anything else. I should not need to be wasting this time replying to you. However if attacked especially out of the blue for no reason I sure as hell will defend myself. Freud would have much to say about this subject. Most notably "everything is not all about you". Yes, if I dug Him up I am positive this would be His words. "Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" Richard Feynman peach Bon Vivant Posts: 1428 Registered: 14-11-2008 Member Is Offline Mood: No Mood Entropy started a thread a while ago in which he's complaining about how the science content of the forum is dropping <--- The majority of his replies to me look like this <--- Since this entire thread was about chemistry applications, I am bothered by the words wasting your time being involved, even though it's followed by the word distillation. You have to appreciate how easily that will either confuse or sway people who aren't sure of what they can and can't do with these kinds of things. For instance, if you follow entropy's referenced thread, you'll find you can reach better than outer space conditions with a diffusion pump (which is incorrect), and little else. Yet he quotes it like some diamond in the dirt, starts a thread complaining about there not being enough science based information on the site, then replies to me with the above. The looping irony is quite outstanding. I don't see the need to imply people are wasting their time with fridge pumps in that regard. As an example, I could have replied in your thread saying you are wasting your time with a rotary pump for the physics experiments, when a diffusion, turbo or ion pump is the correct way to do high vacuum work, using conflat flanges - not bell jars and neoprene. I didn't. But surely you can see how that could also be taken out of context if I had. {edit} Here's another example of a thread I'm not even involved in, where he's doing it again with entirely different people. And there are others, for example, accusing a teenager of being a neo-nazi. [Edited on 9-2-2011 by peach] IrC International Hazard Posts: 2710 Registered: 7-3-2005 Location: Eureka Member Is Offline Mood: Discovering That all makes sense, I thought you were going bonkers ragging me as you quoted me then started in on what looked like it was directed at me. Damn, ruined a perfectly good counter reply. I worked so hard, my fingers are sore, I walked miles in the snow. Actually if it were not for fridge pumps my first quarter century of madsci would have all been done at atmospheric pressures. Took a long time before good surplus along those lines coincided with my actually having money. My bad. Yes my little bell jar setup is not for super high vacuum, mostly playing with plasmas and neat glowy things. I saw the turbomolecular pump you were holding, as I calculated if I could afford the gas to go swipe it. Then I remembered all that water between us and decided against it. Have to add though that there is something in what he was saying, I have noticed this in electronics forums as well for a few years now. I meet adults in their 20's who cannot even change a tire. I thought the human race was supposed to get smarter over time yet my dog is asking questions they are too stupid to answer. Especially lately. Items like jo blow jihadi asking about initiators for 15 kg of you name it while making statements which lead one to think they were clueless in general. Or at the least are insulting to intelligence. Yes jo blow I really want to tell you how to wreck my Christian way of life and my country. Especially as you sound like a total F-tard. This last rant aimed at all the jo blows out there. [Edited on 2-9-2011 by IrC] "Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" Richard Feynman Regolith Hazard to Self Posts: 73 Registered: 4-2-2011 Location: Mining the moon. Member Is Offline Mood: Glacial If I may make a hypothesis based on observations here. This board much like past boards I have been on has a significant Kewl population, so much so my laptop runs colder just being here . That said I'm not implying that irc or peach are kewls (or mossydie for that matter, only through asking questions can we increase our knowledge). It seems though for a lack of a certain green preying mantis (I miss you meglo), this forum causes as much frustration at times as it does provide useful knowledge. Irc is working on a plasma vapour deposition rig, Peach is looking to continue his education to further increase his human Ark potential. Mossydie is making a pressure chamber to test gerbil space suits for his mutant gerbils, all hail our gerbil overlords long may they rain(this last part MAY not be true). The point is there isn't a need for those of us who pursue true science to chew at each other, especially when we pursue goals that are different. I mean how Irc is measuring his double digit (or single depending on the Mayan gods and nature abhorring a vacuum) micron vacuum without a visible non manifold based gauge has thus far eluded me. I'm not ripping on him for it though. As a fellow scientist I conclude he must have a means of testing his own experiments. My own personal example is thus. Upon seeing Irc's footer of "There is no magic, only science". I took this to assume he had no faith in a christian God. My patience was rewarded by his counter rant "wreck my Christian way of life". As with science life requires patience. IrC International Hazard Posts: 2710 Registered: 7-3-2005 Location: Eureka Member Is Offline Mood: Discovering "I mean how Irc is measuring his double digit (or single depending on the Mayan gods and nature abhorring a vacuum) micron vacuum without a visible non manifold based gauge has thus far eluded me. I'm not ripping on him for it though. As a fellow scientist I conclude he must have a means of testing his own experiments." You do not seriously think the equipment I show or talk about is all there is? There is that which I own and that which I can borrow when I like. Only fools let the world in on all of their secrets. When dealing with strangers all things are on a need to know basis and as for me there is little I feel anyone I do not know needs to know. This covers both what I own and all that which I have access to. Every time you read a story about a private experimenter and all their loss and legal problems you can right off assume they did not live by this principle. Otherwise there would not have been a story to read. Further, all the high vacuum work I do is with metal gasketed chambers previously used in laboratory fusion experiments sponsored by university and/or governmental entities. Only an idiot would put a video on You tube of his neutron beam experiment. I find living under the radar is the most intelligent way of existence. This does not preclude one from ever talking about anything they do. On the bell jar the pump can get to one micron if I seal it off ahead of the jar inlet. With my original setup I could get the jar down around a hundred or a little less. Still looking for a gasket material as good as the original but I do not have access to the materials I did when I first built it. My fusion chamber is a different story but I really do not want to show and tell with it. I obtained a second chamber I am desiring to turn into a lens coating setup. Helps to have family who's career has been with various IC manufacturers in the ion implanting and doping part of the industry. For both the surplus and the insight. On the insight side I will quote a little text from my brother in various emails when I need to pick his brain for my next experiment: "Electron beam deposition is using high voltage DC to produce electrons in a very heavy duty light bulb filament in a high vacuum, (3x10-6 Torr), then using a big magnet to turn the electrons 270* so they come right back down and smack whatever material you put in the crucible (pocket right behind the filament) where it melts and ballistically transports up and out and coats whatever you want with whatever material you are burning away with an electron beam. Cool part is you put two coils next to the crucible pocket to steer the beam with voltage, think horizontal and vertical in a TV. You can center the beam on your material if your magnet is weak or too strong for the physical dimensions. Or if your filament is bent and the electrons go a little sideways. Or if a diode is blown in your high voltage power supply and AC gets into the beam and starts creating beam divergence problems and coronas. You can put RF into a system to ionize gases to produce deposition on a surface. Mostly seen Silane and Oxygen to produce silicon dioxide to form an insulating layer. Must have a high current low Freq. burst to ignite a plasma, then a higher freq. lower current phase to actually produce the binding force between the two O2 and SiH4 (to produce SiO2). Byproducts can burn very nicely, and if O2 gets into the pump it can blow up reeeeaaaal good. Or you can use RF to ionize a gas to propel it to a cathode surface to etch a material with whatever gas molecule you want. You can use a reactive gas, Chlorines or hexaflourides and the like, or great big molecules that hit with enough force to pound away at a surface like bead blasting. Argon works well. Matching networks for RF are a necessity since vacuum chambers are just a great big capacitor that would end up burning out an RF generator in short order." "My own personal example is thus. Upon seeing Irc's footer of "There is no magic, only science". I took this to assume he had no faith in a christian God. My patience was rewarded by his counter rant "wreck my Christian way of life". As with science life requires patience." You would have to narrowly look at creation to assume God may not be the greatest scientist of all. It sounds like you are saying your assumption is one cannot believe in science and God in simultaneity. The words in my footer are quite clear. Magic is magic. Hocus pocus. Nothing exists which does not have a valid explanation, therefore by definition there is no magic. Anything perceived to be magic is merely a thing we do not understand. Yet. A large number of the worlds greatest scientists in history believed in God. However I imagine Faraday would have looked at my metal cutting beams of light as magic. I have no doubt being the scientist he was he would have worked until he understood what a laser was if he had the knowledge to do so. Also of course if he had the cool toys to play with we do today. I do not however think this added knowledge would have meant he could no longer believe in God assuming he believed in one before we gave him this new knowledge. Belief in Science, belief in God. One has nothing to do with the other unless you are trapped within a limited perspective. I further find that without exception people with this limited perspective invariably base it upon the insights they have gained in life. Said insight always based upon the erroneous facts they heard from those who knew little about either subject i.e., God or science. As example the common misconception that to be christian implies one thinks the earth is only 6,000 years old. Or the devil made fossils to fool man into thinking it is older. I have heard it all and concluded that while most people claiming to be christian are quite ignorant, to be a 'scientist' and preconceive this implies all Christians are this ignorant shows them to be even more ignorant. After all the 'scientist' is supposed to be one. At least they claim to be a scientist. Much like a christian claims to be a christian. To me, these claims in no way prove to my satisfaction that either one is really 'either one'. One cannot blame God if his children given free will choose to be stupid. This they did to themselves, whether a 'scientist', a 'christian', or 'both'. I should point out however there is little use in renewing the God VS science debate as this is off topic and it seems has never gone very well anywhere on SCM. [Edited on 2-9-2011 by IrC] "Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" Richard Feynman peach Bon Vivant Posts: 1428 Registered: 14-11-2008 Member Is Offline Mood: No Mood Silane hey... One hexachlorodisilane vaporiser and controller. That guy on the side looks in a bad way. What are you planning to coat? By fusion, Farnsworth? [Edited on 9-2-2011 by peach] Regolith Hazard to Self Posts: 73 Registered: 4-2-2011 Location: Mining the moon. Member Is Offline Mood: Glacial I laughed "You do not seriously think the equipment I show or talk about is all there is?" no, otherwise I wouldn't have said "As a fellow scientist I conclude he must have a means of testing his own experiments". You misread the tone of my post, in a roundabout way it was among other things to have you tell me, without directly asking, the scope of your project. I saw a very familiar looking vessel with the HV standoffs under your bell jar. Far from being critical of you there are very few of us who know what a farnsworth fusor is. Let alone made one. (I know thats not a fusor under the glass, or your a neutron loving alien) I have for a time and perhaps again now that I have more knowledge. Tried carbon vapour deposition on a silicon substrate. At the time I was limited by the lack of (ran out of money) proper equipment and the expensive gases needed for the work. Now a russian team has discovered that ethanol and water in a 4/6 ratio is the perfect chemistry for depositing carbon onto a substrate. Wow russians found a use for Vodka, russians ? I was using a microwave beam to create my plasma rather than high voltage, different paths same destination. I imagine yours in operation would be much more visually impressive than mine, large glass jar as opposed to my tiny purple lit shielded quartz viewport. The intent is not to slam the carbon into the substrate but allow it to rain upon the surface with enough scavenging hydrogen to clean the unwanted material off. "Only an idiot would put a video on You tube of his neutron beam experiment. I find living under the radar is the most intelligent way of existence. This does not preclude one from ever talking about anything they do." I wholly agree there was a post in this board about someone wanting to tell the cops what he was doing for safety sake... yeah. That said, a neutron beam can be done quite safely and can be used in among other things (theoretical) reactors where there isn't sufficient neutron flux to start the chain reaction thus creating a very safe reactor that will stop if power is lost. "It sounds like you are saying your assumption is one cannot believe in science and God in simultaneity." I find this curious my own words would show otherwise. Had I agreed and said great you don't believe in a God either. Then my thoughts would be clear. Instead my post shows that my patience was rewarded, hence joy. However this doesn't preclude the original error which may have been mine. I took it to be that YOU saw magic as religion, other boards I frequent these terms are intermixed. I read more into your words that I should have. Personally I believe science and God easily co-exist. Put bluntly the earth is millions of years old, dinosaurs roamed the earth at one point. God isn't going to find your keys for you, or save you from something stupid. He will one day judge my soul. Edited for Peach. Irc is making his own optics. If we were active on the moon and/or had a helium3 source Farnsworth would be a household name. A fusor fed by the correct fuel would produce an alpha particle rather than a neutron. Allowing for that particle to be decelerated in a magnetic field like a transformer and thus have all the energy extracted. It's one of the running ideas of cold fusion. [Edited on 9-2-2011 by Regolith] IrC International Hazard Posts: 2710 Registered: 7-3-2005 Location: Eureka Member Is Offline Mood: Discovering Philo Taylor Farnsworth (August 19, 1906 – March 11, 1971), my hero of all time. Well OK, Tesla is one also. His Tele (Philo's) may have had a crappy picture but it was first, and RCA's Z-man did steal it. Professor Hubert J. Farnsworth, known simply as Professor Farnsworth. I am certain this character was based upon the great Philo T..... The jar was for experimenting with glow discharges and various shapes for electrostatic inertial confinement electrodes at higher pressures with say Argon and the like. Just to play with shapes of screen mesh electrodes, not to make death beams which pointed wherever they liked. Peach you never cease to freak me out with the items you have laying around the house. I will never visit you now I have no doubt there is a Pu foil/Plexiglas stacked reactor in there somewhere. In Job you read about God talking about playing with His pet Leviathan, which people take to be a Hippo as they do not carefully read the description of the tail. I am convinced it is a Super-Saurus, why not if you are God you can afford a really huge poodle right? I came to the conclusion large mirrors for large lasers would always be out of financial reach, thus the need to try and build them. With a set beam current and a set amount of time you easily create quarter wave layers at the frequency in question, of course needing SiO2 layers of the proper thickness in between the metalized layers to build frequency selective dielectric mirrors. Back in 1999 I was bouncing my ideas of carbon Bucky-balls vapor deposited to eliminate the need for silane off of G. Pat Flanagan, but one day I told him I was suspecting T. Beardon may be a quack and He got so pissed at me we never spoke again. Oh well. He was playing with lasers to make carbon Bucky-balls for some kind of health supplement or something or other. Sort of like the use for activated charcoal powder as a way to remove toxins from your digestive system only more high tech. I surmised He was thinking about microscopic 'cages' to contain bad free radicals thus safely transporting them out of the system. Being ever secretive I am not really sure if this was His thinking though. The 1989 Loma Prieta earthquake aided my quest for MadSci as my brother lived 4 miles from the epicenter. The aftershocks for days made it impossible to sleep so he quit Intel and moved back to Phoenix, bringing me tons of stuff. His wife was tired of Him storing stuff around the house. Christmas! Yay! [Edited on 2-9-2011 by IrC] "Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" Richard Feynman Regolith Hazard to Self Posts: 73 Registered: 4-2-2011 Location: Mining the moon. Member Is Offline Mood: Glacial MmmMmmmm Carbon 60, damn why can't you be a woman. I sense the start of a beautiful friendship. I'm stunned by the internal use of fullerenes as many nano particles are extremely bad for you (causes hemorrhage of the alveoli in your lungs) they would need to be purified to the Nth degree for safe human use. I've only read papers on them so it may be overstated, no practical personal use. However the idea of carbon nano particles stuck (forever) in me is not a good time. Yeah peach, could you have some unshielded uranium or other radioisotope at your house so I have lots of warning before I get in the door that I should have pretty much a space suit on. Or just start a proper lab, seriously. You have the technology. I'm not sure of the market on your side of the pond though. peach Bon Vivant Posts: 1428 Registered: 14-11-2008 Member Is Offline Mood: No Mood I do know two people who work at a nuclear power plant, and one of them is the health and safety person there. I've been trying to slowly prise a pass out of him. I was going mention Farnsworth from Futurama, and nanoparticles. At university, I was lucky enough to feel up an MBE chamber, and then stole one of it's power supplies, before it was taken back. Molecular Beam Epitaxy is an example of where very high vacuum is a necessity to get continuous monoatomic layers and wires. The vacuum has to be so deep so as to produce a long mean free path in the molecular flow region, so the molecules from the gas furnace do not collide with a single other particle on their way there; to produce said 'beam' of molecules. The researcher was in the middle of rewinding a directional coil, having forgotten to put a thermistor in and then burnt it out. I wandered into another, empty, research room and was perusing a large (taller and wider than my height) iron structure, with a tiny probe wobbling up and down in the centre, when another researcher literally appeared out of nowhere behind me and enthusiastically explained what was happening (it was a gradiometer measuring magnetic fields). In what was now becoming a reoccuring theme, it had been on fire the week before. Epitaxy, for those wondering, means the new layer joins the substrate and adopts it's crystal lattice as opposed to it's own. Some physicists at Manchester University, near me, won a noble prize for producing single sheets of graphite (graphene) and they have also been producing Hall sensors (the cheapo version of SQUIDs) using quantum wells. As the hall effect is 2D, having bulk silicon in the channel allows for the electrons to drift up and down, rather than going where they're supposed to for the sensor to work. The Hall sensors are much more sensitive as a result. I asked them for a couple and they sent me some. So I tried making a guitar pickup with them. It works! But there's a substantial hiss / rushing sound from the amplifier, which is thermal noise coming from the channel - intrinsic noise and noise that can't be cancelled by filters due to it being random. A very interesting and exciting thing to me is that quantum wells / dots can be grow by colloidal synthesis in a chemistry lab, with glass and none of the special chambers or microfurnaces. The wells will produce laser / diode like emission spectrums, with extremely tight bandwidths. Better yet, they can theoretically reach a 100% level of quantum efficiency, zero losses, as they absorb the incoming light (as a spectrum, usually in the deep blue or UV) and re-emit the new, single line spectrum. That has important ramifications in countless different applications, like display technology, diode production and solar power - e.g. being able to easily harvest all of your UV and then dump it back out at the wavelength the cell will better absorb. Another example would be data transmission. A single fibre optic can carry something like 460gb/s but (as with phone lines) the data needs multiplexing on different lines to fill up it's optical transmission band. Which means lots and lots of different wavelengths for each channel, all sitting closely side by side. A neat property of this colloidal synthesis is that producing the emission band you want is as difficult as stopping the reaction at a specific time. <iframe sandbox title="YouTube video player" width="640" height="510" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/6Xm4LABNYzo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> [Edited on 10-2-2011 by peach] IrC International Hazard Posts: 2710 Registered: 7-3-2005 Location: Eureka Member Is Offline Mood: Discovering Flanagan was the one trying to make a medicine for radical cleansing. I was just communicating with Him on the various ideas of how to make the C60. I'm with you I do not think I would want to actually try it as a medicine. No idea how that idea went for Him I should Google a while to see. I do know drinking activated charcoal in water is said to be a very good method for removing pathogens from the gastro-intestinal system. I have read that, unsure if it is safe or effective. "Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" Richard Feynman peach Bon Vivant Posts: 1428 Registered: 14-11-2008 Member Is Offline Mood: No Mood It is also sold for taming those farts that make your co-workers want to wretch at the sight of you in the morning. Think I'm kidding? Here's the start of the references <-----  Quote: For those who need extra protection! The Overpad-D is washable and reusable and many get several weeks of use out of the pad, depends on usage. Price:$19.95

{edit}I particularly like the woman with a lab coat and board. She inspires confidence in me that, with Overpad-D, this truly will be the end of my smelly anus stinking the place up. Overpad-D is not compatible with fridge pumps, but activated carbon may be of use.

[Edited on 10-2-2011 by peach]

IrC
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At least your topic made it back to gas, I mean vacuum, the absence of gas.

"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" Richard Feynman
bfesser
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 Quote: Originally posted by Regolith The most badass glass mercury thermometer I have goes to 320C (I only have a couple left, try getting bubbles out of mercury when you have to take the glass to 350C to max it out and clear the bubbles).

Try dry ice/acetone to pull all the mercury down into the bulb. It's less risky (I'd argue, easier, too!) than heating.
food
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bit of feedback

a bit of feedback

since my last post I've moved beyond filtration and done some vacuum distillations. The pump ran for many problem free hours. My concerns over heat have been steadily dwindling, and the last time I just directed a fan at it, which was just enough to have a temperature that I was ok with.

this thread has been very useful to me

not to mention that cutting and pasting the fridge compressor sub-assembly like this is so au courant, and very much in <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pimCdIwMPw">the spirit of the age</a>
peach
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Liquid nitrogen - sans cryocooler

I decided to post this here rather than in the other thread, as information is becoming splattered.

There is a video of Patrick, a guy in Germany, liquefying nitrogen using compressors at home. This is the first time I've ever seen someone manage this, and I'm not counting the guy using a helium cryocooler, since that's designed to produce cryogenic temperatures anyway and he's just dropped it into place. Whereas Patrick has gone for a far more DIY and hands on approach that doesn't require bits of physics laboratory gear.

It is essentially a multistage freezer, with five separate stages as opposed to the one you find in a domestic freezer. Superfreezers use this setup, and the cold trap aonomus mentioned, but with less stages.

Each stage uses a different coolant to 'hop down' the temperature; one stage cools the next, and so on (a cascade).

He's using the following refrigerants in each loop;

R404A - An azeotropic blend of R125 (Pentafluoroethane), R133A (Chloro-2-trifluoro-1,1,1-ethane) and R134A (1,1,1,2-Tetrafluoroethane)
R170 with a mix of R1150 - This is ethane and thene respectively
R14 - Tetrafluoromethane
R50 - Methane
R728 - Nitrogen

Result, liquid nitrogen. DARN impressive hey? Click his videos and give him a thumbs up!

{Edit}I've just got another email from him and he's pointed me to a thread showing it being built

[Edited on 20-2-2011 by peach]

aonomus
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Impressive to see a series cascade built at home for cryogenic temperatures.... a gigantic autocascade would have been even more impressive though. Probably would have required a massive compressor and condenser though.
dann2
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The whole set up looks good and MAD

Book below about the liquifying gases.
May be useful

http://openlibrary.org/books/OL7140959M/Liquid_air_and_the_l...

There is another book (lost tech series by Lindsay Pub.) which I have. It may be available online.

Always wanted to do the 'smashing a motor tire into a thousand pieces' at home demonstration!

Dann2
smaerd
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Well I'm bumping this thread because I FINALLY got my grubby hands on an old mini-refrigerator .

I haven't taken it apart yet, but its got a pretty interesting wiring. The compressor looks nice though . Hopefully this little thing will last me many experiments/distillations/filtrations.

I'm sure I'll need some help figuring this thing out so I figured why not bump it in advance hehe...

peach
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Remember to take a look at the wiring prior to taking the compressor out, and don't bin anything like the capacitors until it's working outside of the fridge.

smaerd
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Mood: hmm...

Good call, it's a mini-fridge and the schematic mentions nothing about a capacitor unless it's inside the pump box itself? It's kind of older and has been sitting for months in someone garage until given to me. So I'm assuming it's safely discharged if there is one.

The weird thing about this is the thermostat control seems to lead directly to the pump, and the main's cable does as well? Two green grounds are fixed to the bottom plate. Guess I'll try to figure this out another day, thanks for the tips though .
smaerd
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Okay so the thing came pre-popped I was told. So I cut the copper tubing with a pipe cutter, and cut the opposite end(not the oil fueling line). Unbolted the bottom plate. Snipped the wire to the thermo-stat. Pulled out the thermostat.

Stripped the three wires(white, black, and green) on both ends of the thermostat wire. Reconnected the wires color coordinated and plugged it back in. The compressor gave no response? Wtf? The connections weren't soldered but were tightly wound and electrical taped.

The thing worked when I plugged it in originally(or atleast the compressor hummed)? The only thing I can even think is from the thermostat there was a little metal wire going from it to the ice-tray thing? Or did I kill this thing somehow?

edit:
Should I be 'over-riding' the thermostat entirely by connecting the white wire to the black wire on the thermo-stat wire? If I do this though then I'm not sure what to do with the ground.

[Edited on 7-3-2011 by smaerd]
smaerd
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Well I connected the black wire to the white wire and completely left out the thermostat controller. The pump works again, it pulls air, it seems pretty weak but I'm sure it'll work perfectly . I'll bust out the solder gun, make this sucker official. FINALLY I have a vacuum pump, stupid water aspirator.

I might try to wire a little computer fan on-top of the pump to help keep the pump running cold. Hmmm, we'll see .

[Edited on 7-3-2011 by smaerd]
peach
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{edit}Chopped, since you've got it working in the time it took me to click reply {edit}

***I would stick to calling it the earth. Some people call it the safety ground, but the ground rail in a power supply is the thing that completes the circuit back to the power supply; it's designed to carry power when the circuit is on. The earth shouldn't have any voltage on it or current through it unless there's been a fault (usually the live touching the case). So I think terming one 'the ground' and the other 'the earth' is safer than using 'safety ground', because calling them both grounds is asking for confusion on something really important. The ground rail can sometimes be connected to earth (e.g. the neutral coming into your house is connected to earth), but the purpose of a ground rail and an earth are quite different. The neutral from the grid is there to carry power. The earth is there to carry faults.

[Edited on 7-3-2011 by peach]

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