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Author: Subject: LET THIS SIGNAL THE END OF THE FRIDGE PUMP QUESTIONS!
smaerd
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Makes complete sense . Thanks for posting that naval electrical engineering training thing as well, very useful. Oh yea and thanks for making such a comprehensive thread with videos about all this.
Contrabasso
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Anyone have a wiring diagram for a four wire fridge pump?

I have earth, neutral and two lives should I find a start or run capacitor from somewhere?
smaerd
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Contrabasso does the one live lead to the thermo-stat? Mine did so I cut off the live from the thermostat and connected it directly to the live from the mains. I'm not sure if that helps you out any or not, I know nothing about these kinds of things.

However I did come up with kind of a cool idea to deal with the over-heating aspect of the pump. I'm thinking bend one of those 13-16 inch disposable pizza tin's to make sort of a bowl around the head of the compressor. Fill it with ice/water to cool the pump. The cool thing about this would be that it could double as a cooling bath for a solvent trap/filtering flask type set up. I'll post pictures if I ever get around to figuring out how to make my solvent trap/flask thing.
Contrabasso
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Thanks for that S! I took the pump back to the breaker today and he fitted a lead and plug to it so I'm happy, it works nice and quietly.

Must get a huge buchner flask, and a moisture trap!
smaerd
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Here's my little modification. It's not perfect I wish the little top container was bigger and had better thermal connectivity because of the concave shape of the compressor. Though it does touch maybe 4inchs^2 of surface area, which is okay for now until I find something better. It's PP5 so it should endure temp quite nicely just in-case. The tape is pretty ghetto but I couldn't think of anyway around it.

Anyhow how does this look , keeps the pump cool and has a little solvent trap in-case anything escapes the receiving flask. Sorry the lab is a little messy.

Still need a means to empty the little container, maybe I'll find a spout in one of those old margarita mix containers or something.

smaerd
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Well my pump took an unfortunate belly-full of water today .

So I used my aspirator to remove all the oil and water inside. Flushed with WD40 several times, and removed it via vacuum. Sprayed a little WD40 and is still runs but makes a lot of noise, so it probably needs R12 oil? Or is it likely totally f*$&ed? So I flushed it out with R12 mineral oil, and now it faintly hums for maybe 30 seconds then there's a large click and an electrical spark going from something in the box to the ground . I think it's toast! Well I tracked the spark it's going from the over-load to the ground. Not sure if the problem is the over-load or the relay, they see to be in perfect condition but obviously when the vac over-loaded from not being able to compress the water it must have blown something. It's just strange because it WAS running before I picked up the oil. Albeit loud but it was running. Edit - nvm I don't want to win a darwin award. I think the problem is the Start Relay, wonder if there's a way around it... [Edited on 15-4-2011 by smaerd] smaerd International Hazard Posts: 1262 Registered: 23-1-2010 Member Is Offline Mood: hmm... So I took apart the relay assuming that was the problem, some of the thermiser was oxidized so I scrubbed it with steel wool. Plugged it in no dice. Took apart the over-load, there was not a single sign of damage. So I am assuming the pump is stuck of struggling. Peachy any idea? Picture attached below is the start-relay taken apart amazing how these things cost$40 a piece hahaha. The most expensive component in it can be ordered for 15 dollars...

GreenD
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Thanks for the thread all - smaerd why do you need that anyways? I would assume for most of our purposes an on off switch is fine for everything...
smaerd
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Well the thermiser sends power to the start prong until it heat's up then it changes it's conductivity to send it to the run prong. I guess you are right, an on-off switch should work but I need to find one that can handle those voltages. Assuming the problem is electrical and not mechanical at this point.

[Edited on 17-4-2011 by smaerd]
GreenD
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Mood: Totally f***ing high, man!

Right now I just have mine as plug in - on, unplug - off.

Easy enough. Straight hardwired to an extension cord.
INORGANICUM
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1, (nothing to do with this post) Whats a "kewel"??

2, If I still have it and your still interested would you like to see an industrial freezer compressor cut open?
its almost dubble the hight of an ordinary compressor and maybe a tad rounder (oval though it is).
Also, is there any advice to a way of testing it b4 I dismantle a possably usefull lab itam b4 I take an angle grinder to it? inor

After a brief search & with many more places to look yet, I found 5 compressors, 3 oval 2 round.
The one round one is larger then all the rest but not the one im thinking of, is 23" round by 9" tall, I suspect its just a large freezer comp, as the one im thinking of is oval and heavy (a hulk of a compressor) and double the size as previously mentioned. IIRC INORE

[Edited on 19-04-1967 by INORGANICUM]
INORGANICUM
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 Quote: Originally posted by smaerd Here's my little modification. It's not perfect I wish the little top container was bigger and had better thermal connectivity because of the concave shape of the compressor. Though it does touch maybe 4inchs^2 of surface area, which is okay for now until I find something better. It's PP5 so it should endure temp quite nicely just in-case. The tape is pretty ghetto but I couldn't think of anyway around it. Anyhow how does this look , keeps the pump cool and has a little solvent trap in-case anything escapes the receiving flask. Sorry the lab is a little messy. Still need a means to empty the little container, maybe I'll find a spout in one of those old margarita mix containers or something.

SMAERD, Can you get hold of some of that "Melt in the pot" coloured craft mould makeing rubber for candles to attach the top cooling chamber ? no worries about metal expanding/contracting and simple to use. just a thaught
IN ORE
mycotheologist
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Petty all the videos are gone, I was gonna refrain from asking a question about fridge pumps. I'm gonna go to a recycling centre and find an old fridge but what kinda tools will I need to salvage the compressor? I don't wanna go there for nothing so I have to be prepared. Also, are there any other parts worth salvaging? I read something about the copper tubes at the back of the fridge which hold the freon. Should I salvage that too? I don't wanna leak freon into the atmosphere so I'll figure out a way to trap it instead.

[Edited on 8-12-2012 by mycotheologist]
watson.fawkes
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 Quote: Originally posted by mycotheologist I'm gonna go to a recycling centre and find an old fridge but what kinda tools will I need to salvage the compressor? I don't wanna go there for nothing so I have to be prepared. [....] I don't wanna leak freon into the atmosphere so I'll figure out a way to trap it instead.
You'll need mechanic tools to unbolt and unscrew everything. You'll need a large pair of shears or very-large gauge wire cutters to cut refrigerant lines. (I wouldn't recommend unsoldering or debrazing the lines in the field, when you don't know what's in there.) You'll need a container to drain the existing lubricant into and plenty of paper towels to wipe up the leaks and drips.

Now, if you want to capture the refrigerant, you've got more problems. You need a refrigerant reclamation pump, which is a vacuum pump with adequate gauges, valves, and plumbing. You need to power the pump, which likely means a battery and inverter. You need a tank to pump the refrigerant into. You need hoses for the pump and tank. And finally, you need a special piercing saddle tee to tap into the refrigerant line; you need to match the diameter of with that of the tubing, but there are only a few standard sizes.
mycotheologist
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Looks like I better forget about capturing the refrigerant then. Do I have to cut the refrigerant lines to get the compressor or can I leave them alone? I don't have a car to carry my tools, its a 15 walk from the bus stop, I was thinking of just bringing one of these:

a screwdriver and a few other lightweight tools, will that be enough to get the compressor?
watson.fawkes
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 Quote: Originally posted by mycotheologist Do I have to cut the refrigerant lines to get the compressor or can I leave them alone? I don't have a car to carry my tools, its a 15 walk from the bus stop, I was thinking of just bringing one of these: [...] a screwdriver and a few other lightweight tools, will that be enough to get the compressor?
Yes, you have to cut the lines. There aren't connectors on them; they'll be soldered or brazed in. The picture of the vise pliers reminds me that there's a refrigeration service version of that tool that crimps lines shut; a few crimps and a half-bend on the innermost may allow you to recover refrigerant in the shop rather than in the field.

Get yourself a rolling toolbox or rolling cart to carry your things in if you're confined to walking. Wheeled luggage from the thrift store would work as well.

I can't say what tools you'll need exactly, not having seen the compressor. I'd take a ratchet wrench set and at least one adjustable wrench.
Gargamel
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Fridge Compressor for Vacuum

Does anyone here use a fridge compressor for vacuum?

I just found that running a buchner with a vacuum cleaner is not the best solution. Not enough pressure.

Now salvaged an old Danfoss Model Tl4 from my neighbors fridge.

Do these things pull enough vacuum for our needs?

I also plan to get a small destilling equipment, that I could set under vacuum. Even if the vacuum is strong enough, I wonder how great the losses/leaks of "normal" equipment are, since the compressors flow rate is not so great.

How would I protect the compressor from aggressive vapours, is a washing flask sufficient?

And how about oil - if I ever refill that thing, is there some easily available substitute (motor oil....?)

Also it seems like some compressor oils are hygroscopic. Is that to an extent that running the machine in the air will cause problems rather quickly?
bfesser
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Please <img src="./images/xpblue/top_search.gif" /> <a href="search.php?token=&srchtxt=compressor+vacuum&srchfield=body&srchuname=&f%5B%5D=all&srchfrom=0&filter_distinct=yes&sea rchsubmit=Search">Search</a> before starting new threads. And don't forget that there's an entire world of <a href="http://lmgtfy.com/?q=refrigerator+compressor+vacuum+pump" target="_blank">information</a> <img src="../scipics/_ext.png" /> outside of SM.

[Edited on 30.7.13 by bfesser]

starman
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 Quote: Originally posted by bfesser Please Search before starting new threads. And don't forget that there's an entire world of information outside of SM. [Edited on 30.7.13 by bfesser]

See this extensive thread by Peach for instance
Let this signal the end of the fridge pump questions!
As you can see this comes up a lot.Thats why search before ask.Saves pissing off the moderators.

[Edited on 30-7-2013 by starman]

Chemistry- The journey from the end of physics to the beginning of life.(starman)
Gargamel
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Sorry, I know there's many information around, but sometimes you don't see the forest for all those trees...

I still have two questions/looking for experiences considering the flow rate...
If anyone has experience in using such a compressor for vakuum destillation, up to what size of destillery can such a thing approximately handle?

And considering the oil, has somebody ever tried to replace it?
It seems that the Danfoss compressors use a kind of oil that turns acidic when it comes in contact with the air.

What will hurt em more, having the oil turning acidic over time (or rather very quickly??) or running on "wrong" oil? Any experience?

edit:
It seems like that problematic oil is used with newer models. Mine was running on R12. So It seems like I don't have that problem. Any comment on that?

[Edited on 30-7-2013 by Gargamel]
bfesser
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30-7-2013 at 08:43
bfesser
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30-7-2013 at 08:45
soma
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I'm getting "video doesn't exist" when I click on the videos at the beginning of this thread.
confused
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same here, video doesn't exist
I Like Dots
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I just salvaged a fridge pump from a mini-fridge. Water is distilling over at 45C so im pulling ~100mbar? I did not grease the joints, but the joints are only letting a very small amount of air through. All things considered I am happy with it. Perfect for vacuum filtration!

zenosx
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Yes the video's at the beginning no longer exist? Fixing maybe?

A question that sometimes drives me hazy: am I or are the others crazy?

Albert Einstein
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Mood: " I think we are all going to die. I think that love is an illusion. We are flawed, my darling".

I'd stumbled across this before- And wondered what the missing video might have contained.

*sigh*

http://youtu.be/jF4Ta1_-HUg

Don't know how many of these little buggers I've scrapped, should have saved a few!

Rapopart’s Rules for critical commentary:

1. Attempt to re-express your target’s position so clearly, vividly and fairly that your target says: “Thanks, I wish I’d thought of putting it that way.”
2. List any points of agreement (especially if they are not matters of general or widespread agreement).
3. Mention anything you have learned from your target.
4. Only then are you permitted to say so much as a word of rebuttal or criticism.

Anatol Rapoport was a Russian-born American mathematical psychologist (1911-2007).

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 Sciencemadness Discussion Board » Fundamentals » Reagents and Apparatus Acquisition » LET THIS SIGNAL THE END OF THE FRIDGE PUMP QUESTIONS! Select A Forum Fundamentals   » Chemistry in General   » Organic Chemistry   » Reagents and Apparatus Acquisition   » Beginnings   » Responsible Practices   » Miscellaneous   » The Wiki Special topics   » Technochemistry   » Energetic Materials   » Biochemistry   » Radiochemistry   » Computational Models and Techniques   » Prepublication Non-chemistry   » Forum Matters   » Legal and Societal Issues   » Detritus   » Test Forum