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Author: Subject: is possible to made castable insensitive ETN ?
MineMan
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[*] posted on 8-3-2019 at 00:09
Flumen amazing find!


Quote: Originally posted by Fulmen  
Walk away son, just walk away. Molten ETN just isn't safe, and so far nobody has posted a tried and true method for solving this.

Don't take my word for it: https://reader.elsevier.com/reader/sd/pii/S0304389418312597?...


Fulmen. This forum can’t thank you enough for this find! Wow imagine if 5-10 percent micron aluminum was mixed in too... I suspected molten ETN was more sensitive.. but not this much.

Agreed. Walk away... it’s just not worth the risk... and that’s assuming PURE ETN
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MineMan
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[*] posted on 8-3-2019 at 00:19


We really need to find a good liquid or castible explosive for the armature. With 3D printing, we can come up with some pretty crazy container shapes. So I see this as a growing need.

Nitromethane is great but lacks the VOD and density. Maybe LL’s formulation of DEG and sodium perchlorate?? Didn’t that have a VOD of over 7500 m/s? Cheap too..
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Laboratory of Liptakov
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[*] posted on 8-3-2019 at 01:55


Tests shows, that DEG+NaP has incredible damage power. Primary is very good brizancion, and secondary is it effect of evaporation of water. Which can destroy thick metal plate to a long distance from epicentrum. Really longer distance than ETN at same charge. For testing broken any tree is DEG+NaP much efficience and much cheapest than molecular nitro - some....:cool:...LL



Safety explosive Alfred Nobel 1867. Safety ecologic detonator Dr. Liptakov 2015.
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hissingnoise
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[*] posted on 8-3-2019 at 02:55


Since I can only assume that DEG is your acronym for nitroglycol, why would anyone in their right mind want to mix zero OB nitroglycol with an oxygen-rich, hopelessly hygroscopic salt?

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Laboratory of Liptakov
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[*] posted on 10-3-2019 at 09:15


Not, DEG is Di Ethylene Glycol. With Sodium perchlorate (NaP) works also ethyleneglycol EG, or triethyleneglycol TEG. But best properties are just with DEG. = Dyno Nobel = Patents: https://patents.google.com/patent/US5665935
....:cool:...LL

[Edited on 10-3-2019 by Laboratory of Liptakov]




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[*] posted on 11-3-2019 at 05:45


Perchlorates looks very promising. I have not seen much research on CLO4 salts etc but they look more suitable for amateurs. There is no need for concentrated acids, difficult to buy chems e.t.c. just like nitro-nitrates. Also CLO4 salts can be produced cheaply in huge amounts.
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hissingnoise
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[*] posted on 11-3-2019 at 07:27


Quote:
Not, DEG is Di Ethylene Glycol.

Ooops! Pardon my brainfart, LL ─ it's not even like I'm unfamiliar with di-ethylene glycol...

Acronym derangement syndrome, I guess?

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MineMan
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[*] posted on 11-3-2019 at 11:42


LL. I have noticed sodium perchlorate is becoming much harder to source. I can’t find it and I am in the good old US if A.

Also... LL what would the performance be with lithium perchlorate :)!?? How about this. 10-15 percent 3 micron PTFE, lithium perchlorate and DEG... that way the lithium does not go to waste!! Fluorine is underrated.

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[*] posted on 27-4-2019 at 22:32


I have been experimenting with a binder suggested by Quicksilver in another thread on ETN synthesis, in "ETN Notes 2006.pdf". In these notes, he mentions an adhesive material called "Multipurpose Floor Covering Adhesive", which contains 90% styrene butadiene. He said that it binds VERY well with any powdered material. I thought this would be a simple and versatile material to experiment with. Also I managed to find some, and it is not expensive. It seems to not be very soluble in any of the solvents I have available, acetone, EtOH, lighter fluid. Havent tried gas yet. Anyway, even though it is not soluble in EtOH, the ETN is, so the EtOH seems to help it mix. I was easily able to get a 90/10 by weight mixture. After mixing for half an hour, it is like soft clay. On drying after a day, it is like a pencil eraser in hardness. It does not seem to get any harder than that. I wrapped a small amount around a small ETN cap, in a straw, and I'm pretty sure it detonated. My questions are:

Is this a good plasticizer?
Does 90/10 seem like a good mixing ratio? I want to reduce the sensitivity but not lose too much performance.
How would the density of this compare to what one could get by pressing dry in a tube?

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Laboratory of Liptakov
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[*] posted on 27-4-2019 at 23:03


@MineMan Lithium perchlorate is pretty expensive generally. But LiP works, confirmed. Power is same as with NaP. Therefore is better NaP for his availability. From process NaClO3 = heat 500 C = NaClO4/NaCl = acetone= NaClO4. PTFE was not tested.



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MineMan
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[*] posted on 28-4-2019 at 15:54


Quote: Originally posted by Laboratory of Liptakov  
@MineMan Lithium perchlorate is pretty expensive generally. But LiP works, confirmed. Power is same as with NaP. Therefore is better NaP for his availability. From process NaClO3 = heat 500 C = NaClO4/NaCl = acetone= NaClO4. PTFE was not tested.


But Li has an advantage I believe. More oxygen and the lithium can be oxidized also, no? Li and F is the second most energetic chemical reaction, hence the addition of PTFE would be wise :)
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[*] posted on 28-4-2019 at 22:14


Yes but that's metallic Li. It wouldn't work with lithium salts (such as the perchlorate) where the lithium is already in the +1 oxidation state.



As below, so above.
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MineMan
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[*] posted on 28-4-2019 at 23:33


Quote: Originally posted by Metacelsus  
Yes but that's metallic Li. It wouldn't work with lithium salts (such as the perchlorate) where the lithium is already in the +1 oxidation state.


Can you explain this to me more? It’s important I understand...

Will the molecule not disassociate into LiCl and O4. The LiCl can then be oxidized??
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