Gearhead_Shem_Tov
Hazard to Others
Posts: 167
Registered: 22-8-2008
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Thermometer mishap in Sodium Acetate soln :(
OK, so my wife is out of town for two days, and I say to myself, "This is a great time to neutralise 20L of vinegar with sodium bicarb & boil it
down to a supersaturated soln!"
Of course, that's too much to fit in one pot, but two stainless pots will do quite nicely, and the wife won't mind because it's only vinegar and
bicarb and she won't find out. And there's even room for a bag of activated charcoal to clean up the crud discolouring the mixture.
Eight hours later, it's almost down to 2L total, the black brew (activated C, remember?) boiling away merrily at either 116 or 120, depending on which
thermometer I believe, pH between 6.8 & 7.1, and I'm starting to plan how I'm going to filter all this mess to get rid of the carbon granules ...
Then my good thermometer slips and clunks on the pot bottom; I lift it gingerly to see ... the bulb is broken.
Shucks and other comments.
So. I have two litres of boiling solution contaminated with metallic mercury, now. Is there any way to save my sodium acetate? How about the
stainless pan?
-Bobby
|
|
|
woelen
Super Administrator
Posts: 7977
Registered: 20-8-2005
Location: Netherlands
Member Is Offline
Mood: interested
|
|
The sodium acetate won't be contaminated. Mercury does not dissolve in such a brew, not even at well over 100 C. So, you still can use that for
experiments without worrying about being poisoned.
Whether the pan can still be used for cooking purposes depends on the type of pan. If it is really made of stainless steel, then the mercury does not
adhere to it, mercury is absolutely non-sticking to iron. The same is true if the pan is covered inside with a teflon anti-caking coating. If the pan
contains aluminium and this is exposed to the liquid, then I would not use it anymore for preparing food. Aluminium and its alloys can absorb mercury
(and at such spots it corrodes like hell).
|
|
|
blogfast25
International Hazard
Posts: 10562
Registered: 3-2-2008
Location: Neverland
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Your pH doesn't seem to fit though, assuming neutralisation was complete, then sodium acetate is more alkaline than that. Or did you use an excess of
vinegar to suppress hydrolysis?
As regards the pan, I believe even an aluminium pan could be saved by carefully scrubbing it with steel wool and concentrated washing soda. Like all
alkalis it attacks aluminium (the extent depending strongly on conditions, of course), so that the layer that might contain some Hg should come off
quite easily, unless it penetrated quite deeply of course.
|
|
|
woelen
Super Administrator
Posts: 7977
Registered: 20-8-2005
Location: Netherlands
Member Is Offline
Mood: interested
|
|
Quote: Originally posted by blogfast25  | As regards the pan, I believe even an aluminium pan could be saved by carefully scrubbing it with steel wool and concentrated washing soda. Like all
alkalis it attacks aluminium (the extent depending strongly on conditions, of course), so that the layer that might contain some Hg should come off
quite easily, unless it penetrated quite deeply of course.
|
I would not rely on this for eating things. Of course it is fine to treat the pan like this and then use it
for other non-food things (such as a water bath, a pan for boiling down things), but I would not eat anything from it anymore. You only have one body
and one health.
Again, if the pan is made of iron, or if it has an intact teflon anti-caking coating, then I would have no problem using it for cooking. Just clean it
well with hot water and soap and then rinse with water.
|
|
|
bahamuth
Hazard to Others
Posts: 384
Registered: 3-11-2009
Location: Norway
Member Is Offline
Mood: Under stimulated
|
|
Once I was cleaning some mercury with conc. HCl in a stainless casserole, gently heating was applied(less than 100 degrees Celcius), then suddenly the
mercury drop( about 0.05 mL) disappeared, leaving a little bump and a shinier spot in the stainless steel casserole, it had amalgamated to the
casserole. Tried to scrape it with a stainless spatula, hard as steel it was.
Anyway, would easy eat a couple grams of mercury at once, but would not cook in metal ware contaminated with mercury, releasing the toxic metal slowly
over the years, giving brain damage some ten-fifteen years later.
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
|
|
|
Rogeryermaw
National Hazard
Posts: 656
Registered: 18-8-2010
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
i know mercury is dangerous but i accidentally broke a thermometer when i was a kid (couldn't have been more than 10 years old)and just let the
mercury fall into my hand and let it roll around. i thought it was the coolest thing i ever saw and i didn't know any better. not even sure if i
washed my hands before eating. still here though!
|
|
|
zed
International Hazard
Posts: 2277
Registered: 6-9-2008
Location: Great State of Jefferson, City of Portland
Member Is Offline
Mood: Semi-repentant Sith Lord
|
|
Yes, but you have also adopted the name Roger-your-mom.
Hardly evidence of normal development.
True, most of the rest of us, have had lots of mercury exposure ourselves.
But, look at our pathetic state. We are just a bunch of scientist types.
Had we avoided all those toxic metals, our nervous systems might have developed to the point, that we could have become poets, or even rock musicians.
|
|
|
Rogeryermaw
National Hazard
Posts: 656
Registered: 18-8-2010
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by zed | Yes, but you have also adopted the name Roger-your-mom.
Hardly evidence of normal development.
True, most of the rest of us, have had lots of mercury exposure ourselves.
But, look at our pathetic state. We are just a bunch of scientist types.
Had we avoided all those toxic metals, our nervous systems might have developed to the point, that we could have become poets, or even rock musicians.
|
this is why i love this forum. you can not find intellectual wit like this in many other places. as for unusual development i blame my sister. she
hooked me on monty python at a young age! i have actually played guitar for about 18 years and had a nice project jamming with a band for about 3
years until we had a big show in knoxville, ar. (i know, what in arkansas could possibly be big but for us 300 people was huge!)all that changed when
we decided to get there at 10 am and didn't play till 9 pm. 11 hours for our drummer to drink and timing became a thing of the past. also if it was
the toxic metals that molded my mind into what it has become, i wish i had drank a gallon of the stuff!
poets and rock musicians! we could even do better than that! we could be politicians banning chemicals! or better still we could be reality t.v.
stars!
[Edited on 1-10-2010 by Rogeryermaw]
that's me on the right
[Edited on 1-10-2010 by Rogeryermaw]
|
|
|
Magpie
lab constructor
Posts: 5939
Registered: 1-11-2003
Location: USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Chemistry: the subtle science.
|
|
Nice pelt Roger! Better not get too close to an Indian reservation.
The single most important condition for a successful synthesis is good mixing - Nicodem
|
|
|
peach
Bon Vivant
Posts: 1428
Registered: 14-11-2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
I routinely don't wear gloves, goggles or masks when other people would. But I would write that pan off as far as cooking is concerned now.
Mercury on it's own is not particularly dangerous.
It is VERY dangerous once it starts forming salts, and some of those salts will sublime at low temperatures; causing them to 'disappear'. They haven't
disappeared of coarse, they're now in the air and soon to be your blood stream (as they're highly water soluble in those forms, unlike mercury alone).
Our brains reach their maximum number of neurons around 20. But most of the learning we do and memories we have are created by interconnections
between the neurons, that continue to form throughout the rest of our lives (going to bed and having dreams is almost certainly when our brains are
cooking away at cementing the connections, the memories reappear and REM sleep deprived people have shit memories). For that to happen, dendrites
(roots) need to extend out of the neurons and touch others as memories fire and cofiring factors draw the two cells to each other through a synaptic
connection.
Mercury ions stall the growth cones that make that possible. From my memory, which may already be mercury poisoned, it takes only a single mercury ion
to stall each growth cone. And they're not easy to get rid of.
As far as dissolving the stuff, I've done that with sulphuric. It had to sit in a conical with a 75mm bar beating the ass out of it in boiling 98%
sulphuric for a good half hour to a few hours.
Still, given the tiny amounts required for it to start messing with your mind, best to assume enough of it has gone to a salt whenever there's an
acid, long contact times and heat involved.
I'm guessing you're not planning to eat the sodium acetate. But don't use the pan, particularly if it's aluminium. Write on it in marker pen as well
so your wife / kids don't pick it up and use it. Unless they've really been getting on your tits and you want the insurance money. 
MORE DREAMY FACTS;
Our brains go through a repeating cycle throughout the night. There are waves, like Delta, that work like clock signals for the brain, it seems.
Connecting an EEG to someone's head as they sleep shows the different waves up. They cycle down towards REM, the person starts to dream, and then they
come back up. Then go back down, several times a night, and with each cycle getting less and less intense.
|
|
|
Gearhead_Shem_Tov
Hazard to Others
Posts: 167
Registered: 22-8-2008
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by peach | ...
Mercury on it's own is not particularly dangerous.
... [but] ...
It is VERY dangerous once it starts forming salts, and some of those salts will sublime at low temperatures; causing them to 'disappear'. They haven't
disappeared of coarse, they're now in the air and soon to be your blood stream (as they're highly water soluble in those forms, unlike mercury alone).
...
|
So, maybe it would make sense for me to try testing the sodium acetate and the pan -- definitely stainless steel, for the record -- for Hg and/or Hg
salts? The only thing worse than having to remove a $90 pot from kitchen service would be Hg poisoning my nearest and dearest.
-Bobby
|
|
|
peach
Bon Vivant
Posts: 1428
Registered: 14-11-2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Given the level of toxicity mercury compounds present, I would not trust a home test when it came to reusing the pan for cooking the dinner in.
They make the Emergency Planning Act's list of Extremely Toxic Substances.
The chloride is about 6 times more lethal than sodium cyanide, 13-14 times more so than arsenic, 16 times more so than strychnine (rat poison).
Cyanide will disappear provided it doesn't kill you whilst it's present (which doesn't last long). Mercury salts can not only be more immediately
lethal, but will stay with you and cause you harm even if it doesn't reach the lethal stage.
I use tumblers from the kitchen all the time as stand in beakers. I wouldn't put one back if it'd had mercury in it. Mercury plus acid, I'd chip the
rim and put it in the garage (out of sight & reach) or bin it.
Mercury salts are most certainly a lab glass only area.
[Edited on 4-10-2010 by peach]
|
|
|
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
