Tacho
International Hazard
Posts: 582
Registered: 5-12-2003
Location: Brazil.
Member Is Offline
|
|
Bismuth out of Pepto Bismol.
I would like to make a few grams of metallic bismuth.
Any chance I could get it from Pepto Bismol (bismuth subsalicylate)?
Any sugestions would be appreciated.
|
|
|
Organikum
resurrected
Posts: 2115
Registered: 12-10-2002
Location: Europe
Member Is Online
Mood: file not found
|
|
I dont know how you can get it from Pepto Bismol, but I know that there are pellets for shotguns available which contain mostly bismuth. They are as
replacement for lead-pellets for not contaminating the environment with lead. Dont get the steel-shot so....
Every better sorted hunters/weapon shop will have it or can order it. As it is thought to get mostly dispewrsed all over the earths surface there
should be no problem at all to get it - cheap.
|
|
|
Friedrich Wöhler
Harmless
Posts: 42
Registered: 7-2-2004
Location: Germany
Member Is Offline
|
|
Hi Tacho,
http://www.kremer-pigmente.de/pigmen13.htm#wismutmalerei
Its a German store for painting artists. ("Wismut" = Bismuth)
Well, Brazil is very far from here, but also there must be a source like this...
Kein Schwanz ist so hart wie das Leben.
|
|
|
chemoleo
Biochemicus Energeticus
Posts: 3006
Registered: 23-7-2003
Location: England Germany
Member Is Offline
Mood: crystalline
|
|
Besides, you can get bismuth from arts supplies (not pigment supplies such as kremer), it is sold pure in kg amounts, and sold as low melt alloys 
[Edited on 13-2-2004 by chemoleo]
Never Stop to Begin, and Never Begin to Stop...
Tolerance is good. But not with the intolerant! (Wilhelm Busch)
|
|
|
axehandle
Free Radical
Posts: 1065
Registered: 30-12-2003
Location: Sweden
Member Is Offline
Mood: horny
|
|
Ah... yes! Now I also remember. Bismuth is indeed used as a replacement for lead shotgun pellets in countries where the politocrats haven't
realized that lead in pure form is NOT an environmental hazard. I know of only one such place: the US of A. Here, the politocrats are making laws to
replace the lead with iron. Idiots. A gun barrel wouldn't like that after a thousand shots.....
Edit: Try a local gun store that deals in equipment for hand loading.
[Edited on 2004-2-14 by axehandle]
My PGP key, Fingerprint 5D96 E09E 365D 1867 2DF5 C2FE 4269 9C19 E079 CD35
\"Verbing nouns weirds the language!\"
|
|
|
rikkitikkitavi
Hazard to Others
Posts: 192
Registered: 17-6-2002
Member Is Offline
|
|
some lead/tin alloys for soldering and making of tin-caracters (I dont know the exact word, but you know the small figures all boys used to make when
12) contains Bi for lowering the melting point. Shouldnt be to hard to separate them chemically.
/rickard
|
|
|
hodges
National Hazard
Posts: 451
Registered: 17-12-2003
Location: Upper U.S.
Member Is Offline
|
|
Electrolysis
If you really are intent on getting the bismuth from Pepto-Bismal, I would think electrolysis would do it. Sharpen both ends of two pencils. Connect
the two pencils to a 6V lantern battery and dip the other ends in the Pepto-Bismal. Metal should form on the negative pencil lead.
Obviously, yields are not going to be too great, but if you just want to do it, it should work. I hear you can also prepare mercury from
Mercurichrome (sp?) this way.
|
|
|
I am a fish
undersea enforcer
Posts: 600
Registered: 16-1-2003
Location: Bath, United Kingdom
Member Is Offline
Mood: Ichthyoidal
|
|
If you just want a small piece of bismuth, check out shops that sell rocks and fossils. They sometime sell bismuth crystals.
1f `/0u (4|\\| |234d 7|-|15, `/0u |234||`/ |\\|33d 70 937 0u7 /\\/\\0|23.
|
|
|
Geomancer
Hazard to Others
Posts: 228
Registered: 21-12-2003
Member Is Offline
|
|
Axehandle: Please check your facts before insulting people. Detrimental effects from the use of lead shot are well documented. Lead poisoning kills
about 2-3 percent of the US waterfowl population annually. Moreover, lead containing waterfowl present a hazard to anything that eats them. Problems
arising from sublethal doses have not been so well examined but undoubtedly exist. IIRC some indications are present of acccumulation in fish of lead
from elemental sources, but I'm not sure of the details.
As regards your gun barrels, only the ignorant would let hard shot contact them in the first place. Use a shot cup.
|
|
|
Mr. Wizard
International Hazard
Posts: 1037
Registered: 30-3-2003
Member Is Offline
|
|
Bismuth shot is a rather scarce item. I bought a box of shells from Cabela's and emptied out the shot. It is rather pricey. I was going to try
some of the diamagnetic levitation tricks.
|
|
|
Tacho
International Hazard
Posts: 582
Registered: 5-12-2003
Location: Brazil.
Member Is Offline
|
|
Thank you all!
I'm pretty sure I'll get some elemental bismuth soon using all these tips!
Hodges, to get it from pepto bimol, yours was a very good Idea. I just found out that adding some HCl to the thick pepto bismol emultion turns it into
a clear colorless solution, ready to electrolisys. Ill try this Idea first. I was thinking of reduction with carbon at high temperatures, but that
would be messy and, maybe, useless.
If my math is right, there is 5,7g of bismuth to every 10g of dry, pure subsalicylate.
Reagent grade elemental bismuth cost the equivalent of about 50 euros for 100g around here!
I want it because I'm curious about it's unique magnetic properties. It is reppelled by magnets.
|
|
|
Theoretic
International Hazard
Posts: 640
Registered: 17-6-2003
Location: your mom's bedroom
Member Is Offline
Mood: red
|
|
Heating it strongly should work. Organic heavy-metal salts decompose to the carbonate and then the carbonate decomposes to the oxide. The carbon that
is made during the decomposition should then reduce the oxide, however I think there's going to be an excess of C, so the resulting metal
isn't going to be very pure.
|
|
|
unionised
International Hazard
Posts: 2160
Registered: 1-11-2003
Location: UK
Member Is Offline
|
|
IIRC you can reduce bismuth (III) compounds with tin(II) in alkaline solution.
|
|
|
Tacho
International Hazard
Posts: 582
Registered: 5-12-2003
Location: Brazil.
Member Is Offline
|
|
If you basify the pepto bismol and dilute it 1:2 in water, the bismuth salt sediments.
If you acidify and pass through a sieve the sedimented salt, dilute in water, you end up with an almost clear solution.
I found out by accident that if you put a thick aluminum foil in this clear solution, dark gray powder precipitates from the foil.
A-ha! A reduction of bismuth by aluminum! Al reduction potential= -1,66, Bi red. pot.= -0,46 , 0,32 or 1,8. Well, I don’t know why Bi has 3
different potentials but they are all bigger than –1,66, so reduction by Al foil makes sense I guess... The only table I could find that had Bi
in it is very confusing.
Well, then things started going wrong! I washed, filtered and dried this precipitate, but when I tried to melt it down, it didn’t. It smoked and
glowed as if it were burning. Remained a black (not yellow as oxide and hydroxide should be) oxide-like thing, about 1cc of it. I tried to flux it
with borax, but made things worse.
I would appreciate comments about this, specially opinions about if that precipitated could really be bismuth and, if so, what flux can I use to melt
it to a nice shiny blob.
|
|
|
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
