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Author: Subject: Red Phosphorus Source
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[*] posted on 19-12-2019 at 01:35
Red Phosphorus Source


https://www.amazon.com/Match-Striker-Sheets-Strike-Regular/d...

I just think that I will leave this here.




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[*] posted on 19-12-2019 at 06:53


Wow - that's...something.

Doesn't seem a bad price, either. I think they might only ship in the US though.

[Edited on 19-12-2019 by G-Coupled]
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[*] posted on 19-12-2019 at 08:40


If anybody tries recovering phosphorous from these please do a write-up.

I've been meaning to do the same for A + B finger flash powder but have been putting it off because I've got red P and don't use it much.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Magic-Tricks-A-B-FINGER-FLASH-Flash... (I believe this is Armstrong's mixture components, but haven't bought any to test)

There are clearly a lot of posters on here who either can't, or don't want to, buy red P from chemical suppliers but would still like to get a bit OTC for this or that project.






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[*] posted on 19-12-2019 at 10:17



Doesn't seem a bad price, either. I think they might only ship in the US though.

Yeah, they don't ship to Australia unfortunately.
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[*] posted on 19-12-2019 at 10:23


Just buy plain Phosphorus, it is white. Then heat it to 250C, it will turn into red phosphorus.
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[*] posted on 19-12-2019 at 10:37


That's actually pretty interesting.



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[*] posted on 19-12-2019 at 10:45


And is white phosphorous easier to get where you are?






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[*] posted on 19-12-2019 at 11:22


I would make the phosphorus if needed. Take a phosphorus salt like the Phosphorus chloride or the trichloride, or the pentachloride (PCl5) and dissolve it in water. Then add a stoichiometric amount of metal powder like Zinc, Iron, etc. The phosphorus will precipitate out and the metal powder will take on the salt (exchange reaction).

Apparenly Phosphorus comes in some interesting colors: "Colourless, waxy white, yellow, scarlet, red, violet, and black." It probably starts out as black, then turns white, yellow, scarlet, red, and violet by heating.





[Edited on 19-12-2019 by beerwiz]

[Edited on 19-12-2019 by beerwiz]
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[*] posted on 19-12-2019 at 11:31


@beerwiz: You have no idea at all of the chemistry of phosphorus. Phosphorus is not a metal and does not form salts of sulfate, chloride etc.

Making phosphorus at home from easily available materials (where I live you can easily buy phosphates and phosphites, both of which are quite boring chemicals) is very challenging. Only a few members over here managed to get phosphorus from such materials.




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[*] posted on 19-12-2019 at 11:35


Quote: Originally posted by beerwiz  
I would make the phosphorus if needed. Take a phosphorus salt like the chloride, sulfate, acetate, etc and dissolve it in water. Then add a stoichiometric amount of metal powder like Zinc, Iron, etc. The phosphorus will precipitate out and the metal powder will take on the salt (exchange reaction).

Apparenly Phosphorus comes in some interesting colors: "Colourless, waxy white, yellow, scarlet, red, violet, and black." It probably starts out as black, then turns white, yellow, scarlet, red, and violet by heating.







[Edited on 19-12-2019 by beerwiz]


I’m really not sure if I get this, phosphorus has a few chlorides but they react in contact with water and I can’t find anything on phosphorus sulfate or acetate on Google. I know there are many easily available phosphate salts, but the phosphate is the anion so it will stay in solution and the cation in the compound will precipitate out, plus phosphate isn’t elemental phosphorus anyways. I’m really new to this forum so I might be missing something obvious but I really don’t think this would work.

Industrially phosphorus is made by heating phosphate salts with carbon and silica sand, but this requires very high heat so it’s probably not practical for an amateur.

[Edited on 19-12-2019 by garphield]
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[*] posted on 19-12-2019 at 11:36


It's all about the weird allotropes IIRC, and that for example - only Red Phosphorus will catalyse certain reactions for some reason I'm sure is fascinating.
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[*] posted on 19-12-2019 at 11:37


Phosphorus does come as the PCl, PCl3, and PCl5.
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[*] posted on 19-12-2019 at 12:34


You can get phosphorus chlorides but they hydrolyze on contact with water so you aren’t gonna be able to precipitate out phosphorus like with copper chloride.
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[*] posted on 19-12-2019 at 14:16


Quote: Originally posted by garphield  
You can get phosphorus chlorides but they hydrolyze on contact with water so you aren’t gonna be able to precipitate out phosphorus like with copper chloride.


Stupid question, but - hydrolyze into what?
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[*] posted on 19-12-2019 at 14:41


Phosphoric acid and HCl
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[*] posted on 19-12-2019 at 14:46


If you buy 10 of these, install trapdoors in front of your front door to trap the incoming no-knock DEA agents.
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[*] posted on 19-12-2019 at 15:19


Quote: Originally posted by garphield  
Quote: Originally posted by beerwiz  
I would make the phosphorus if needed. Take a phosphorus salt like the chloride, sulfate, acetate, etc and dissolve it in water. Then add a stoichiometric amount of metal powder like Zinc, Iron, etc. The phosphorus will precipitate out and the metal powder will take on the salt (exchange reaction).

Apparenly Phosphorus comes in some interesting colors: "Colourless, waxy white, yellow, scarlet, red, violet, and black." It probably starts out as black, then turns white, yellow, scarlet, red, and violet by heating.







[Edited on 19-12-2019 by beerwiz]


I’m really not sure if I get this, phosphorus has a few chlorides but they react in contact with water and I can’t find anything on phosphorus sulfate or acetate on Google. I know there are many easily available phosphate salts, but the phosphate is the anion so it will stay in solution and the cation in the compound will precipitate out, plus phosphate isn’t elemental phosphorus anyways. I’m really new to this forum so I might be missing something obvious but I really don’t think this would work.

Industrially phosphorus is made by heating phosphate salts with carbon and silica sand, but this requires very high heat so it’s probably not practical for an amateur.

[Edited on 19-12-2019 by garphield]

Thats because salts with phosphorus in the cation dont exist, you cant have a phosphorus sulfate or acetate. Thats a pretty strictly ionic thing, and phosphorus just cant do that.




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[*] posted on 19-12-2019 at 17:05


Yeah, that’s why I think that guy’s idea of precipitating phosphorus out of solution with a reactive metal like what you might do with copper or silver wouldn’t work, I just wasn’t 100% sure that you couldn’t have something with both phosphorus and an acetate group, like some sort of ester. I was trying to explain why I thought that you couldn’t treat phosphorus like it was a metal - because it isn’t a metal - but I am very new to this forum while that guy has like ninety posts so I didn’t just want to say that he was wrong because I know there is a rule against being argumentative and I might have been just as wrong as he was. Sorry for not being clearer in my original post.
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[*] posted on 19-12-2019 at 17:29


Quote: Originally posted by beerwiz  
I would make the phosphorus if needed. Take a phosphorus salt like the Phosphorus chloride or the trichloride, or the pentachloride (PCl5) and dissolve it in water. Then add a stoichiometric amount of metal powder like Zinc, Iron, etc. The phosphorus will precipitate out and the metal powder will take on the salt (exchange reaction).

Apparenly Phosphorus comes in some interesting colors: "Colourless, waxy white, yellow, scarlet, red, violet, and black." It probably starts out as black, then turns white, yellow, scarlet, red, and violet by heating.





[Edited on 19-12-2019 by beerwiz]

[Edited on 19-12-2019 by beerwiz]


Jezuz you are misinformed, we have an entire thread dedicated to this topic and while it is possible for an amateur to make elemental phosphorous from phosphates the process is hellishly difficult and dangerous requiring temperatures in excess of 800*c. Some members have succeded at this approach but its pretty broudly recognised as an endevour for the few.

Also phosphorous halides are not salts, as neither phosphorous or halides are metallic (exceptions and amonium cations not included).

[Edited on 20-12-2019 by Assured Fish]




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[*] posted on 19-12-2019 at 18:09


Quote: Originally posted by Cou  
If you buy 10 of these, install trapdoors in front of your front door to trap the incoming no-knock DEA agents.


Buy ten of those and people will think you're a survivalist.

Don't panic. I buy red P in bags and it comes to me through customs with properly filled out customs forms and I haven't heard from the DEA yet.

Maybe they'll come by to bother me someday, but I doubt they're going to go after purchasers of match strikers before they come after all the people like me out there.

Note: I don't buy it by the kilo, more like 100 to a few hundred grams at once.





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[*] posted on 20-12-2019 at 09:04


I've really come to detest amazon and found these on ebay https://www.ebay.com/itm/10-8-x-11-Match-Strike-Paper-Strike...

Just as SWIM said it's survival gear.





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[*] posted on 20-12-2019 at 14:41


Quote: Originally posted by garphield  
Yeah, that’s why I think that guy’s idea of precipitating phosphorus out of solution with a reactive metal like what you might do with copper or silver wouldn’t work, I just wasn’t 100% sure that you couldn’t have something with both phosphorus and an acetate group, like some sort of ester. I was trying to explain why I thought that you couldn’t treat phosphorus like it was a metal - because it isn’t a metal - but I am very new to this forum while that guy has like ninety posts so I didn’t just want to say that he was wrong because I know there is a rule against being argumentative and I might have been just as wrong as he was. Sorry for not being clearer in my original post.

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--------------------------------
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Last Acquired: B
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[*] posted on 20-12-2019 at 16:26


Quote: Originally posted by SWIM  
Quote: Originally posted by Cou  
If you buy 10 of these, install trapdoors in front of your front door to trap the incoming no-knock DEA agents.


Buy ten of those and people will think you're a survivalist.

Don't panic. I buy red P in bags and it comes to me through customs with properly filled out customs forms and I haven't heard from the DEA yet.

Maybe they'll come by to bother me someday, but I doubt they're going to go after purchasers of match strikers before they come after all the people like me out there.

Note: I don't buy it by the kilo, more like 100 to a few hundred grams at once.


From what country?




Phlogiston manufacturer/supplier.

For all your phlogiston needs.
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[*] posted on 20-12-2019 at 17:51


Quote: Originally posted by SWIM  
If anybody tries recovering phosphorous from these please do a write-up.





I once recovered some rP from matchbox striking surfaces by different manufacturers out of curiosity.
Depending on the glue used, slightly wet the surface with acetone or dH2O and simply scrap it of with a spatula. Just dont wet it too much or you will have more cellulose contamination in the collected solid.
Wash the collected solid with acetone and water, followed by a H2SO4/dichromate cleaning of the crude rP.
After washing with water, you are left with pretty pure red phosphorus.
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[*] posted on 20-12-2019 at 19:14


Quote: Originally posted by PirateDocBrown  


From what country?


Got some from Poland via Ebay earlier this year.

Got some from Estonia a couple years ago too.

Red P gets posted on Ebay intermittently.
Usually called amorphous phosphorous.
That's what they called what I bought from Poland.
I think there was some from Russia posted recently.

Here it is. https://www.ebay.com/itm/100g-phosphorus-7723-14-0-99-9-agri...

Just ordered 100 grams. let's see if it works, and if I get any visitors.

The listing does look a little vague, but the molecular weight is in the listing, so if it ain't phosphorus I ought to be able to return it.

I believe the "for fertilizers' line is cover to avoid getting reported or hassled. We'll see...

[Edited on 21-12-2019 by SWIM]





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