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Author: Subject: Awful ETN yields
XeonTheMGPony
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[*] posted on 15-1-2020 at 04:21


Quote: Originally posted by LardmanAttack  
Quote: Originally posted by XeonTheMGPony  
Spend more time learning about the reaction, why it does what it does.

1h of study will save you pounds of wasted chemicals and hours in wasted time and effort

Take notes of the reaction, then each one there after making particular notes of changes and how they effected the yield, change one variable at a time.

Mixing, never enough mixing!


Use a slight excess of H2SO4 to facilitate easier mixing if needed.

http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=83358

http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=7209



[Edited on 13-1-2020 by XeonTheMGPony]


I know how the reaction works, I know chemistry, i'm not a complete amateur. I was just initially annoyed at how it wasn't working correctly, its not like if you know the chemistry, your yields will automatically be perfect.

If I really need to prove it to you then fine.
Erythritol is a sugar alcohol with a molar mass of 122.120 gĀ·mol, when added to a solution of nitric acid and sulfuric acid in the correct ratios, a reaction called a nitration takes place, whereby the hydroxyl groups of the Erythritol are replaced with Nitro groups (NO2) thus creating a new, explosive compound named Erythritol tetranitrate, Its explosive properties coming from the newly created NO2 groups and their ability to explosively decompose while oxidizing any reductive elements (mainly carbon and hydrogen) in the chemical structure, thus creating a large amount of gases in a short time

There. I know chemistry, although I can admit I'm a little rusty at stoichiometry.


Well you proved you deff need to do a lot of refreshing!

Why I provided you to two of the largest thread links on this exact question, that goes into detail for this particular. reaction, and optimizations

Even I had issues when I started making this, part is it turned out one of my feed stocks wasn't pure enough, the next was my mix was slightly out of spech, and three there where improvements in procedure I hadn't considered till reading of others methods.

So I do what I all ways do when I get surprising poor results, I research the shit out of the reaction to see where I screwed up! and if I didn't screw up I look more carefully at my reactants and ratios (Well I do that any ways).

I don't care if you know or not, my point was as clear as day, you need to review this stuff! If you are getting bad results we need to eliminate variables, I all ways start with the person as they tend to be the biggest problem in 99.99999999998% of things!

Our brains are crap at remembering things, we often forget simple basic things that have the ability to toss a rather big wrench into the works, and unless you review the basics, how do you know, that you don't know that you don't know! Less you refresh your memory! Yes it is tedious, but when you play with a thing where lucky is only losing limbs, it is well served to be thorough, I find a stout hot coffee helps with the process!

SO if you want improved results with better yields follow instructions!

Step one: Review your knowledge base, look up the basics.
Step two: Review the threads on others problems, look for common themes.

Step Three: Check all reagents, purify if need, or concentrate if needed, dry if needed.

Step four: Check glass wear, clean and contaminate free?

Step five: review your procedure and compare it to what you learned from every one else's screw ups (Including mine that are in the thread!)

Step Six: Take all this information and design a test run experiment, hone in one the sweet spot with your reagents and scale up slowly whilst keeping track of the process in lab book.

there is no magic thing, we can't say "Just throw this in there and get 200% yields!"

[Edited on 15-1-2020 by XeonTheMGPony]
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LardmanAttack
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[*] posted on 16-1-2020 at 01:31


Quote: Originally posted by Tsjerk  
Not exactly, you form nitrate groups, not nitro groups. Despite confusing naming all around, they are quite different.

Being "rusty" at stoichiometry sound a bit strange to me. You get it or you don't, it is secondary school stuff for 14 year olds..


Alright, I didn't come here to debate whether or not I know chemistry, the point is, i'm getting good yields now and am satisfied. Thanks for everyone's help.
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[*] posted on 16-1-2020 at 01:35


In the end, I think my biggest issues were 1. not enough time letting it react, 2. too much water and 3. too little nitrate/nitric, Now that i've solved all of those problems my yields are 1.5x the original amount of Erythritol.
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[*] posted on 17-1-2020 at 02:32


Quote: Originally posted by LardmanAttack  
In the end, I think my biggest issues were 1. not enough time letting it react, 2. too much water and 3. too little nitrate/nitric, Now that i've solved all of those problems my yields are 1.5x the original amount of Erythritol.


Good for you. I could recommend you the first article in the thread "Life after detonation"




Women are more perilous sometimes, than any hi explosive.
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