Arthur Dent
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Gas scrubber for fermentation products
I was reading the thread "Other methods for extracting ethanol?" at
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=15300
and that looks like a promising avenue to produce some plain ethanol for solvent/reaction uses. 
But here's my problem... A few years ago (from 2003 to 2006), a good friend of mine and I got equipped with all the stuff necessary for home beer
brewing. We brewed succesfully numerous batches of surprisingly good beer and saved mucho money.
But putting one and two together, we realized that during those years, our individual condos were infested with little brown ants, and as soon as we
stopped our brewing efforts, the infestation did too. I haven't seen an ant since 2006 in my house!
So I figured that what might have attracted the ants was the release of CO2 and aromatic compounds during fermentation. My friend and I were very
careful during the brewing process not to spill any of the wort so I figure it has to do with the released gas itself!
I still have all my brewing equipment, so I could try out the process outlined above, but since I don't want any ants in my house, I was thinking
instead of using the small plastic bubbler over the fermentation carboy, to make an elaborate gas scrubber that would completely neutralize the CO2
and any other fermentation byproducts.
What would be the best technique to do that with standard labware? To recap, I just want to strip the gas output from any traces of solvents and
aromatic stuff, possibly just by bubbling the evolved gas through a series of solutions, so that there is little or no output left and that it's clean
as a nun's fart... 
Robert
--- Art is making something out of nothing and selling it. - Frank Zappa ---
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ScienceSquirrel
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The simplest way to get alcohol for solvent/reaction puposes is to clean up denatured alcohol.
A lot less hassle and cheaper, you only need a small still as opposed to one that will hold tens of litres, and the equipment can be used to purify
other solvents like diethyl ether from Quickstart and dichloromethane from paint stripper, etc.
Gas scrubbers tend to be large as gases tend to need a lot of surface area to react and they will produce waste as well.
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mr.crow
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I know for a fact fermentation can be very stinky, having been to several breweries and distilleries. Perhaps your best bet would be running the gas
through a plastic sewer pipe full of activated charcoal. Or you could have a hose to lead the smell outside. Sodium carbonate solution could
neutralize any sulfur compounds. NaOH will react with the CO2, but its harmless with enough ventilation. Another wash with dilute H2SO4 could
neutralize any amines.
EDIT: For solvent use its a lot of work!
[Edited on 10-2-2011 by mr.crow]
Double, double toil and trouble; Fire burn, and caldron bubble
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Arthur Dent
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It is indeed a lot of work, but the challenge of preparing absolute ethanol out of water and sugar is pretty awesome and ultra geeky fun!
I'll use four 1-liter erlenmeyers. The first one empty for anti suckback, the second filled with NaOH sol., the third empty again for anti-suckback
and the last one with a solution of H2SO4. The thirs one is to avoid the nastiness of a suckback of acid into the hydroxide... kepow! That should
provide a pretty good gas scrubbing and i'll forward the output of the last flask right outside.
Of course, the final product of the fermentation will be distilled and "salted out" according to the numerous age-old recipes on this forum!
Thanks for the suggestions. I'll try a small scale experiment and if it works, I may use that gas scrubbing method when I decide to brew beer again.
Robert
[Edited on 10-2-2011 by Arthur Dent]
--- Art is making something out of nothing and selling it. - Frank Zappa ---
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unionised
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You will need a lot of NaOH.
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Regolith
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Ant's like many insects have an ability to sense carbon dioxide. The plan shouldn't be to mask the co2 thats very difficult and dangerous in the long
run, dealing with large amounts of NaOH, pumping it around etc.
Use Boric acid (otc at most pharmacies) mixed with sugar in upto a 50/50 mix (you don't wan't the ant to die BEFORE she gets back to the nest, all
ants are females the male drones are rarely seen). Put it on plastic lids where only the ants can get to it (boric acid is toxic and can is used as
both disinfectant and an eyewash, no seriously, works for pinkeye and several other ophthalmological issues, dosage and method of application separate
poison from medicine). The ants will take it back to the nest and the queen, after approximately a month my ant problems vanished. I was having them
come in from a crack near a water line 6 feet under the soil line...
As I've said Im a beekeeper, another super-organism. You need to think of ants not as just pests but the ARMS of the colony, they have unlimited
potential to regrow unless you take out the queen by getting her arms to bring her poisoned food (or dig her up).
Want an interesting mental picture ? One of my colonies in a farmers field had an ant mound build upto it under the supports it was standing on the
ants started going into the colony. Upon me getting back the dirt nest right under the white hive was covered inches deep in dead ants. The bees deal
in the same terms ants do and thus just had guards nonstop cut the ants to pieces as they tried to enter. Super-organism vs a Bigger super-organism.
My faith in humanity just took a dive, the best google ant co2 link is how to use club soda to kill them (treehuggers...). Suffocation with co2, for a
burrowing species... http://yellowmagpie.com/ant-about
Kids magazine chosen for more impact.
"Perhaps even more mind-boggling is their air conditioning system. Ants construct their colonies in such a way as to funnel out poisonous carbon
dioxide and bring in its place fresh, clean air."
When you've been around for about 160 Million years, your gonna have that carbon dioxide thing nailed.
[Edited on 12-2-2011 by Regolith]
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unionised
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Making your own pesticides is illegal in the UK. I don't know about elsewhere.
Piping the gas outside is almost certainly the simplest and cheapest solution.
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Arthur Dent
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Totally agree. I certainly don't want to find a way to attract ants in my house just to kill them. I'd rather just not have them at all. I'll
investigate the idea of a long hose to pump out the evolved CO2 (after a basic scrubbing) outside, simply to avoid attracting these nasty little
buggers again. My house has been ant-free for the past 4 years, and I intend to keep it that way!
I did use boric acid/borax to get rid of the ants in the past, including a product called ant-b-gone and it was quite effective.
Robert
--- Art is making something out of nothing and selling it. - Frank Zappa ---
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peach
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I believe the ants can smell the aldehydes and other fruity goodness brewing off.
Lots of insects are attracted to the smell of rotting fruit because it means dinner is nearby in the wild. I've had to pick drunk
bumble bees out of my pint in the past.
The simplest form of scrubber you can make that'll remove large amounts of various different things is activated carbon. There is a lot of it on eBay
for putting in pond filters and a strong contingent of people buying it to scrub the stench of their mondo cannabis farm out of the exhausts for the
lights; like bumble bees to beer, the police can smell cannabis farms from over 10km away on a still night.
Ants used to perpetually invade my house while I was growing up. Every year there'd be an army of them, tirelessly digging their way in, a grain of
sand each. Awwwww.
Rather than kill them, which doesn't work, it can be more effective to tidy up outside, paint the base of the walls and fill in all the gaps, then
caulk the inside of the room where they're coming in. Tireless or not, ants can't easily dig through acrylic and silicone.
74p a cartridge
A drunk squirrel
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Regolith
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"Making your own pesticides is illegal in the UK. I don't know about elsewhere."
Good lord, that's illegal there too ? How do you gents enjoy science when the Gov would like to take your toilet away and have someone there to change
your diapers instead?..
I've tried caulking without success, the failure may have been mine to not use enough perhaps. The little red buggers just kept picking up the
caulking and taking it away. I agree now that they are gone I don't want to repeat the red invasion.
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unionised
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"How do you gents enjoy science "
My idea of science doesn't include DIY ant bait. It takes all sorts.
I can buy boric acid (or borax).
There's no rule that says I can't make borate glass beads, or even use those beads and a UV light to look for uranium.
It's also illegal to be drunk in a public place. We don't always follow the rules.
[Edited on 13-2-11 by unionised]
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Regolith
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Hehe hey when the ants come calling I break out the science to deal with em
whether that be poison or caulking to seal em away.
Ooooh another hot rock hunter ? I have a scintillation detector built from a pin diode. How well does your way work? (I'm assuming your coloring the
glass to test?) Have you tried both (that is to say any radiation detector) ? I make some serious coin selling my purified clicking goodness to local
potters who cannot get it any other way(regulations).
[Edited on 13-2-2011 by Regolith]
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