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Author: Subject: Ammonium persulphate + sulphuric acid as a sub for piranha solution
Keras
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[*] posted on 22-6-2020 at 00:28
Ammonium persulphate + sulphuric acid as a sub for piranha solution


Guys,

since 30% hydrogen peroxide is hard to come by in Europe, I'm looking for alternatives, especially to clean glassware (I'll probably attempt to concentrate 10% H₂O₂ into a 30% solution using vacuum distillation at 50°C or less. My simulations show that the process is almost quantitative up to 50%+ concentration, i.e. that only water distils). I've recently ordered a 1 kg box of ammonium persulfate and just read it can act as a pretty good tar scavenger when mixed with (hot?) concentrated sulphuric acid.

Anyone having an experience with this mixture, apparently also called Nochromix?

Thanks!
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DavidJR
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[*] posted on 22-6-2020 at 04:47


12% hydrogen peroxide still works.
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Keras
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[*] posted on 23-6-2020 at 04:47


But I suppose to a much lesser extent. Or much more slowly?
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DavidJR
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[*] posted on 23-6-2020 at 04:58


I don't really know, I've never had 30% hydrogen peroxide to make piranha with. But what I do know is that a mixture of arbitrary quantities of 12% hydrogen peroxide and 91% sulfuric acid drain cleaner still make a very effective cleaner.
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Keras
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[*] posted on 23-6-2020 at 10:07


Do you use it cold or hot?
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Refinery
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[*] posted on 23-6-2020 at 12:38


It appears that your source states it is efficient glass cleaner, so it is. In cleaning, if it does the job is only what matters.

In my POV the persulfate-carbonate-substances are very cheap and OTC, but H2O2 is only available in diluted form, and it commands a huge price. 30 bucks for 1 liter of 3% H2O2 is absolutely prohibitive, when 1kg of persulfate is sold for 4 bucks. I can get H2O2 up to 50% with one phone call through a company, but I don't really need a 6 gallon canister of it.

EDIT Now that you said it, I need to get some persulfate as well. I have some dirty glassware and sintered funnels that's been waiting for cleaning for a while.

[Edited on 23-6-2020 by Refinery]
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DavidJR
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[*] posted on 24-6-2020 at 00:40


Quote: Originally posted by Keras  
Do you use it cold or hot?


I don't heat it, but it gets pretty hot just mixing it up and I use it immediately.

[Edited on 24-6-2020 by DavidJR]
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Keras
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[*] posted on 24-6-2020 at 22:21


Ok, thanks!
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Refinery
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[*] posted on 26-6-2020 at 12:41


I suppose sodium can be substituted with ammonium freely?
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karlos³
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[*] posted on 26-6-2020 at 12:53


You can use oxone instead, and sulfuric acid, this gives you piranha solution too.
Or "nibblewater", as the translation of a nice German term for it(Knabberwasser) would say(I'm trying to establish that word in english, it sounds really cute) :).
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symboom
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[*] posted on 26-6-2020 at 13:07


I second the reaction of sulfuric acid and oxone I tried it on a strawberry although it seemed to react slower but the strawberry was gone in minutes

[Edited on 26-6-2020 by symboom]
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[*] posted on 26-6-2020 at 13:25


If potassium peroxymonosulfate is mixed with H2SO4, what is the reaction equation? It is the salt that forms from from H2SO5 or Caro's acid, should it be rather inert in this case?
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