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Author: Subject: Powerful ozonizer, is it possible at home?
DennyDevHE77
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[*] posted on 25-3-2024 at 01:41
Powerful ozonizer, is it possible at home?


Recently I've been thinking about ways to produce large quantities of 100% nitric acid, or better yet, with the addition of nitrogen pentaoxide. One option is to saturate nitric acid (65%) with nitrogen dioxide, and pass a rich air-ozone mixture through the solution. Or mixing ozone and NO2 in the gas phase, but this is less convenient.

Theoretically, this method will yield many liters of 100% nitric acid. But practically, I have not even seen ozonators, neither household, nor industrial, nor homemade, capable of producing more than a few tens of grams of ozone per hour. Is it possible to create an installation, say, with an ozone output of 500-600 grams of O3 per hour at all? And what type of discharge is the most suitable for high output? Let me say at once that electricity is almost free for me. I am just guided by the principle that if something is possible, someone must have already done it, and here it turns out that no one has done normal ozonators.

So, if such an ozonator is possible at all, please share your thoughts, how would you make it? Or you may know those who have already done such a thing, or even detailed manuals? And also, I will be very grateful if someone has a book about ozone production, usually narrow-profile books very well describe the technological process and all the theoretical background.
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[*] posted on 25-3-2024 at 03:13


Wikipedia says that dielectric barrier discharge (DBD) ozone generators can produce up to 24% ozone concentration in oxygen. Simple calculation shows that to produce 600 grams of ozone, 280 litres, you need to pump something like 1200 litres of dry pure oxygen through your apparatus. Does it sound as feasible to you?



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DennyDevHE77
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[*] posted on 25-3-2024 at 04:09


I saw this article too, but I'm surprised that no one has put it into practice, apparently it's not that simple. Or I wasn't looking hard enough. And so pumping a few m3 of oxygen or air is not difficult. Oxygen is at least as easy to make by electrolysis.

In the same Wikipedia I have seen references to electrolytic methods with high ozone yield. But I found only a few ways to electrolyze either perchloric acid on platinum electrodes or electrolysis of ammonium fluoride solution, both more expensive than getting it from air.
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25-3-2024 at 05:50
dicyanin
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[*] posted on 3-4-2024 at 14:50


Attached are two papers which may be of interest. They were referenced on passing in a work on electrochemistry available in the Sciencemadness library. One paper discusses the use of a specially designed platinum wire electrode, partially molten in a glass U-tube with its surface partially exposed, the making of which requires some glassblowing skills. They reported ozone concentrations of 0-15% by electrolysis of aqueous sulfuric acid under varying conditions.

The second paper uses pretty much the same setup, but studied the effect of AC superimposed on DC in this system. Varying conditions usually gave an ozone output in the same range but some outliers were reported with concentrations in the 20s and even 30s%.

Both papers are in German and from the early 20th century.


Attachment: electrolytic production of ozone _Zeit. Anorg. Chim 1907_c.pdf (1.5MB)
This file has been downloaded 34 times

Attachment: electrolytic ozone production AC superimposed on DC.pdf (5.7MB)
This file has been downloaded 37 times




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Rainwater
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[*] posted on 4-4-2024 at 01:31


Quick google found this, assuming the output rate is correct. You would need a source of pure O2 at 15psi to produce 200g / hour O3, with a milti stage particulate filter.
The easiest way to scale up to 600g / hour would be to place 3 of these in parallel.

I work with large ozone generators, they are very reliable but extremely difficult to fix/maintain. Cleanliness is 99.999% of the maintenance and dirt/oil is 100% of the downtime cause.
https://www.a2zozone.com/products/s-200-g
Ya. They cost that much

If you injected a mixture of N2 and O2, you can produce NOx directly
[Edited on 4-4-2024 by Rainwater]

Quote:
I will be very grateful if someone has a book about ozone production,
Ozone chemistry and technology; this book presents sixty papers constituting the proceedings of the International Ozone Conference held in Chicago, November 1956; a group of international authors presents many facets of the science, technology, and application of this versatile form of oxygen

[Edited on 4-4-2024 by Rainwater]




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DennyDevHE77
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[*] posted on 6-4-2024 at 07:56


Thank you so much for your help. If I make something worthwhile, I think I'll post it here.
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[*] posted on 10-4-2024 at 03:55


There are these ozone generators found on ebay and similar sites.
This one is advertised as 28g/h and is about 17 Euros.
I have one like this and its producing quite a bit of ozone but i have not tried to measure it or done anything with it yet.
Bevare of peroxides if you plan on using it in experiments.


Ozone generator ebay.jpg - 148kB
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[*] posted on 10-4-2024 at 17:05


Would be great if you could run a titration to get some sort of estimate on the actual ozone output! It is very easy for the ebay sellers to claim any sort of grams/hour amount of production. A lot of them are not even designed to run for an hour, so if I was being generous- it is likely that these numbers come from running it for a minute and then extrapolating the number out to a gram/hour amount, despite the efficiency dropping off as the thing gets way too hot.

And if I was feeling un-generous, the number could just be a straight up lie. There's zero consequences for lying, and all the reward of increasing sales if your number is higher than others. I seem to recall it was ~10g/hour a few years ago, so I assume they're in a constant bidding war with the output number, rather than improving the tech
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[*] posted on 10-4-2024 at 17:18


Like the LiIon batteries claiming 10000mAH in an 18650 cell. Complete BS.
They rely on people being unable to test these things properly.




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[*] posted on 10-4-2024 at 18:57


Quote: Originally posted by Twospoons  
Like the LiIon batteries claiming 10000mAH in an 18650 cell. Complete BS.
They rely on people being unable to test these things properly.

Yes agreed- and there a lot more people in the world who can + have the equipment to test for battery capacity than can titrate an ozone generator!
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[*] posted on 10-4-2024 at 19:37


Tdep, you titrated yours; what was the actual output?

Edit: I found the video; with a ozone generator that claimed 3g/hr, you got about 250mg/hr with air and about 750mg/hr with pure oxygen. There's no way any of these generators are getting even close to 28g/hr.



[Edited on 4-11-2024 by Sir_Gawain]




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[*] posted on 17-4-2024 at 03:58


Well, the sellers of these things do often claim better numbers than can be had.
And they always assume the best factors as pure oxygen supply, running 24/7 (that these devices and their power supplies cant do).
But the device is relatively cheap and do produce ozone.
Allthough i havent measured it i tried a different variant with 2 SS tubes and HV and the "ceramic plate" one above seems to produce more ozone by judging the smell.
Certainly not a reliable test at all, but it does produce some ozone and given its quite cheap it might be worth trying out.
One certainly can buy a better, bigger ozone device with accurate specs, but it will be VERY expensive.
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