plante1999
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chlorine/chloroform
so here a short story, today i take my HCl in CHCl3 sol. and i ad 70% Calcium hypochloride to make chlorine , the sol turn yellow/green and about
30sec later it sudantly disapear forming clear sol , does anyone have idee of wath appen to the chlorine?
thanks!!
I never asked for this.
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Hades_Foundation
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Maybe you made carbon tetrachloride? If the chlorine reacts with the chloroform...
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symboom
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the only thing i can think of is the chlorine was dissolved for a little then dissipated
also Hades_Foundation makes a good point
reactions
(Chloroform) CH4 + Cl2 → CH3Cl + HCl
(Dichloromethane) CH3Cl + Cl2 → CH2Cl2 + HCl
(Chloroform) CH2Cl2 + Cl2 → CHCl3 + HCl
Chloroform undergoes further chlorination to give CCl4:
CHCl3 + Cl2 → CCl4 + HCl
this sounds like what you might have
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chloroform#Production
hope this helps
[Edited on 25-4-2011 by symboom]
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trb456
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Or could it have been this, symboom?
CHCl3 + Ca(OCl)2 + 3HCl → CCl4 + CaCl2 + 2H2O + Cl2
Once Cl2 is given off, equilibrium is driven to the right?
Edit: the great Wikipedia confirms the following:
Ca(ClO)2 + 4 HCl → CaCl2 + 2H2O + 2Cl2
So perhaps this is directionally correct, as the difference in the two equations nets out to the classic synthesis?
[Edited on 25-4-2011 by trb456]
[Edited on 25-4-2011 by trb456]
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m1tanker78
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CCl4 is a possibility (from experience). Was any gas evolved when you mixed the 2 substances? Can you describe the odor (if any)? Did you stir or
swirl the solution when it turned clear or did it happen on its own?
Tom
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plante1999
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when mixed the 2 substance yellow chlorine gas is evolve, (i like so mush the chlorine odors and taste, i cannot describ it to you it is to beautiful,
and i dont have any idee how to describ it)........ and yellow sol is obtained , after 30 sec with no disturbing the yellow sol disapear with no
buble.
[Edited on 25-4-2011 by plante1999]
[Edited on 25-4-2011 by plante1999]
I never asked for this.
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m1tanker78
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Quote: Originally posted by plante1999  | when mixed the 2 substance yellow chlorine gas is evolve, (i like so mush the chlorine odors and taste, i cannot describ it to you it is to
beautiful, and i dont have any idee how to describ it)........ and yellow sol is obtained , after 30 sec with no disturbing the yellow sol
disapear with no buble.
[Edited on 25-4-2011 by plante1999]
[Edited on 25-4-2011 by plante1999] |
Oh, you don't need to describe it. My early experiments with molten salt produced plenty. I rather despise it now so I'm glad I don't have to deal
with it anymore!
Can you take 10 or 20 mL of your solution into a test tube and add some H2O2? I recall getting a yellow-green liquid and a faint odor of phosgene(!)
on top of the chloroform odor when I did this. Some gas was slowly evolved at first (smelled of chlorine) then I got the sweet/ragweed smell. I didn't
take any notes when I did this reaction since it was unexpected so I'm basing this off of memory. One thing I clearly remember is that smelling the
liquid a couple of times put me in a daze.  Use caution, particularly around
phosgene. The liquid evaporated and never changed color so I'm assuming the color wasn't due to an ionic metal impurity but who knows...
Tom
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plante1999
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hum.... i already smelled many time chlorine gas...... and no phosphogen odor was evolve..... i dont understand peaple said that chlorine smell bad
and make respiratory tract....3month ago i smelled very large amont of chlorine and i dont feel bad , probably some imunity because i do very high
amount of experiment with chlorine.... i like the odor of all chlorine compound...
and i dont like the idee of oxidizer + CHCl3
[Edited on 26-4-2011 by plante1999]
[Edited on 26-4-2011 by plante1999]
I never asked for this.
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Neil
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| Quote: Originally posted by plante1999 | | when mixed the 2 substance yellow chlorine gas is evolve, (i like so mush the chlorine odors and taste, i cannot describ it to you it is to beautiful,
and i dont have any idee how to describ it)... |
| Quote: Originally posted by plante1999 | hum.... i already smelled many time chlorine gas...... and no phosphogen odor was evolve..... i dont understand peaple said that chlorine smell bad
and make respiratory tract....3month ago i smelled very large amont of chlorine and i dont feel bad , probably some imunity(!?) because i do
very high amount of experiment with chlorine.... i like the odor of all chlorine compound...
and i dont like the idee of oxidizer + CHCl3
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Am I so new to the forum that I'm missing a joke, or are you trying to follow in the steps of Myfanwy?
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plante1999
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no im no fallowing is step , i take all safety gear when i do experiment and i dont do hydrogen cyanide synthesis , just when i work with chlorine
(outside) i smell a huge amont of chlorine because the wind.... also many time i smelled very dilute chlorine gas (outside).i dont do something that i
thing will domage miself , i never feel bad or burn me.
i just report that i wasn't affected by chlorine , thats it.
[Edited on 26-4-2011 by plante1999]
[Edited on 26-4-2011 by plante1999]
I never asked for this.
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woelen
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Be careful anyway. You are no more special than any other person over here and chlorine also affects you! Not feeling adverse effect does not always
mean that they are not there. I know of a person who experimented with NO2 and smelled a lot of it. He did not have any other effect, just smelling.
But several hours later he obtained difficulties breathing and things become so bad that he went to see a doctor. Fortunately he recovered and a few
days later all bad effects were gone, but I write this as a warning that you always should be careful with such corrosive gases like Cl2.
Besides the immediate effect, what do you think of long term effects? CHCl3 and CCl4 are carcinogens. A single whiff won't kill you, but inhaling them
frequently because "you love the smell of all chlorine compounds" may cause bad long term effects which you may regret in a later stage of your life.
In your experiment extra care must be taken. CHCl3 + Cl2 + H2O (from the hydrated Ca(ClO)2.2H2O) _might_ lead to formation of COCl2.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
This experiment is quite interesting though on its own. I have done a similar experiment many times, but always in aqueous solution.
An interesting thing may be to try the experiment with two test tubes, each filled with 3 ml of the solution of HCl in CHCl3 and to both you add a
small spatula of calcium hypochlorite. One of these test tubes is kept in bright light, the other is put away in darkness. Watch the test tube which
is in bright light and wait till the color of the Cl2 fades again. When all color is gone, then inspect the other test tube. If this still has the
color of Cl2, then the consumption of Cl2 is accelerated by light. If you can confirm that, then indeed the further chlorination of CHCl3 to CCl4 may
be a good candidate of what seems to happen in the experiment.
[Edited on 26-4-11 by woelen]
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plante1999
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You have reason about chlorocarbon and other carcinogens , like i said earlier i dont smell thing if i think it will domage me , but i smell it
involantary when doing experiment , Woelen , i think you can understand that this not because you know and like the odor of CHCl3 that you smell it
each week. Chlorine is said as a toxic gas at short therm that have not long therm effect.
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the light seem to have no or bad effect on the reaction , when i go see the solution at the dark , the color have already fade....
more test need to be done.
[Edited on 26-4-2011 by plante1999]
[Edited on 26-4-2011 by plante1999]
I never asked for this.
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Hades_Foundation
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I feel that the carcinogenic properties of substances are often overstated. Take trichloroethylene and chloroform, they are now classified as
probable carcinogens, but given their widespread and decades long use as anesthetics, the fact that there doesn't seem to exist any solid evidence of
cancer effects in surgeons and surgical staff (AFAIK) makes one think that such effects would be small compared to other well established causes.
I'm just saying it's not like smoking, or radium extraction from pitchblende 
btw, came across this article:
http://www.brewracingframes.com/id75.htm
a few drops, and exhaust fan on? At first it seemed unlikely to me, you would expect many more cases if it really formed so easily by heat. but then
I read that the UV rays of the TIG would be the culprit.
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m1tanker78
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While we're on the topic of chlorine, there's another interesting side of Cl. If you're a smoker and you light up a cigarette after inhaling some
chlorine [accidentally], the smoke will taste sweet. This effect persists for several minutes to an hour after exposure.
Plante, if you work with chlorine a lot, you might want to consider using a nebulizer with baking soda solution. I never had any serious ill effects
from mild inhalation of chlorine but I still shy away from it.
Tom
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