Sciencemadness Discussion Board
Not logged in [Login - Register]
Go To Bottom

Printable Version  
Author: Subject: hmtd
xplosivsrkool
Harmless
*




Posts: 5
Registered: 22-3-2004
Member Is Offline

Mood: curious

[*] posted on 24-3-2004 at 05:17
hmtd


Anyone know the best way to store hmtd? I did a search and found a couple of sites that said it was safe to store under dH2O however, I also found a site that said they had seen HMTD detonate under 100ml of H2O. I know that from my experiance HMTD is pretty stable.



View user's profile View All Posts By User
a_bab
National Hazard
****




Posts: 449
Registered: 15-9-2002
Member Is Offline

Mood: Angry !!!!!111111...2?!

[*] posted on 24-3-2004 at 07:50


You'll better not store HMTD, nor any other organic (explosive) peroxides. Yes, HMTD seems to be stable, but at some point although it was proposed to be used as a primary by the military forces, it was abandoned. Guess what ? Not stable enough. Besides, it's really dangerous to handle, as it seems to be the cause of many accidents.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
IgnorantlyIntelligent
Moderately Insane
****




Posts: 280
Registered: 16-10-2003
Member Is Offline

Mood: Unhuman

[*] posted on 24-3-2004 at 15:22


Just about anything can still detonate under water if the right heat/pressure is applied to it. But, unless you misstreat it, I dont see why it would. If you must store it, store it in a paper cup with a small amount of pure water in it. Just enough water to cover everything. Anymore and your just adding weight and there for pressure to the molecules. Do not store it in glass or even plastic. Always treat it as though it could detonate at any time.
Youn might want to look into making some sort of NC paste to go in it.......like AP putty.




\"People fear from ignorance what they do not have the intelligence to understand\"

\"Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation.\"

\"A fool would rather not question, a soldier is taught not to question, a slave dares not question.\"

\"To fight for nothing is to love nothing, to die for something is to have lived for something.\"
View user's profile View All Posts By User
xplosivsrkool
Harmless
*




Posts: 5
Registered: 22-3-2004
Member Is Offline

Mood: curious

[*] posted on 24-3-2004 at 16:23


Why not plastics or glass? I've read about incompatibility with several metals but never that. I only want to store a little less than 4g.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
The_Davster
A pnictogen
*******




Posts: 2859
Registered: 18-11-2003
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 24-3-2004 at 16:34


You dont use plastic or glass due to the shrapnel risk if you have an accidental detonation.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
xplosivsrkool
Harmless
*




Posts: 5
Registered: 22-3-2004
Member Is Offline

Mood: curious

[*] posted on 24-3-2004 at 16:34


Oh, forgot to ask how the h2o affects the rate of decomposition. Also you mentioned pressure, the vapor pressure that develops above the water in a closed container is no problem right? I would assume that would be unimportant at normal temps.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
tom haggen
National Hazard
****




Posts: 488
Registered: 29-11-2003
Location: PNW
Member Is Offline

Mood: a better mood

[*] posted on 24-3-2004 at 20:06


I've read somewhere before that when you cap your stored explosives, make sure you use a cork or something that isn't threaded. I don't see why water would cause decompostion of your explosive as long as its not miscible in water. I my self never store sensitive explosives. However, I do not fear plastic shrapnel, glass on the other hand is quite different.

[Edited on 25-3-2004 by tom haggen]




N/A
View user's profile View All Posts By User This user has MSN Messenger
Mr. Wizard
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1039
Registered: 30-3-2003
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 24-3-2004 at 21:51


Not using threaded caps has to do with the active material getting caught in the threads and being set off by friction. This is also a problem when taking the cap OFF of some materials, such as ethyl ether, which form peroxides on storage. Worry about those dusty unopened bottles on the back of the shelf, with the white crust around the cap. School labs are prone to these accidents.
As to shrapnel, they can find the metal in the stump of your, whatever it was, with an X-ray, but they'll have to probe for the plastic and glass.

You can use KI/starch paper dampened with dilute Hydrochloric to test for those hidden peroxides on bottle caps. A moist cotton swab can bring a small sample to the KI paper, the iodine staining the starch means free oxidizers.. beware.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
palpy
Harmless
*




Posts: 19
Registered: 19-7-2003
Location: Central Europe
Member Is Offline

Mood: none

[*] posted on 25-3-2004 at 05:37


Yes, especially storing dry AP in threaded containers may cause problems as the AP tends to sublime easily, but I wouldn't be afraid of HMTD if it's appropriately wetted.
When I used to make HMTD I stored it under EtOH instead of water - easier drying:)
BTW the plastic and glass containers are not used because of danger of static electricity - organic peroxides are more sensitive to this than anything. I've heard of someone accidentally setting off his HMTD (or wa it AP?) by !!taking off his woolen jumper!! and touching it... :/
View user's profile View All Posts By User
IgnorantlyIntelligent
Moderately Insane
****




Posts: 280
Registered: 16-10-2003
Member Is Offline

Mood: Unhuman

[*] posted on 25-3-2004 at 06:10


There is no reason properly made AP or HTMD shouldn't be able to be stored for a month or so. I have stored AP in my room in a paper cup for more than one month and it was about 20g. Just make sure it is neutral and be smart with it. You said your only storing 4g......just keep it in a paper cup and you'll be fine. I woulnd't worry about it unless it's upwards of 10-15g. Oh and BTW just common sence but sometimes overlooked, do not sleep with it near your bed! My friends who make HE or are into pyro stuff all practicaly sleep with their shit. WHY?!?!? Hell if your able to why not store it outside? Don't use water for storing, I doubt it will help. Probably do more bad than good due to it adding weight on top of the molecules and stressing them more. Alittle common sence goes a long way. Just be careful and always keep respect for it.



\"People fear from ignorance what they do not have the intelligence to understand\"

\"Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation.\"

\"A fool would rather not question, a soldier is taught not to question, a slave dares not question.\"

\"To fight for nothing is to love nothing, to die for something is to have lived for something.\"
View user's profile View All Posts By User
KABOOOM(pyrojustforfun)
National Hazard
****




Posts: 254
Registered: 12-10-2002
Location: Iran (pseudoislamic dictatorship of)
Member Is Offline

Mood: exuviating!

[*] posted on 27-3-2004 at 20:33


<blockquote>quote:<hr>Youn might want to look into making some sort of NC paste to go in it.......like AP putty.<hr></blockquote>HMTD is incompatible with nitric esters. IIRC there were accident reports on E&W that HMTD-NC putty had detonated spontaneously.
<blockquote>quote:<hr>Don't use water for storing, I doubt it will help. Probably do more bad than good due to it adding weight on top of the molecules and stressing them more.<hr></blockquote>the pressure caused by the layer of water is NEGLIGIBLE, keeping HMTD under water or EtOH has the advantage that the liquid fills the voids and consequently makes it less sensitive.




View user's profile View All Posts By User
chemoleo
Biochemicus Energeticus
*******




Posts: 3005
Registered: 23-7-2003
Location: England Germany
Member Is Offline

Mood: crystalline

[*] posted on 29-3-2004 at 08:55


Indeed, I found that HMTD under alcohol is fine, for many weeks. Keep it in a cool and dark place. Also, drying it from Ethanol goes much faster.
Sunlight is to be AVOIDED, I once left a small batch in alcohol under sunlight, and bubbles appeared. I do not wish to find out what'd have happened if I had let the reaction continue...




Never Stop to Begin, and Never Begin to Stop...
Tolerance is good. But not with the intolerant! (Wilhelm Busch)
View user's profile View All Posts By User
PaulGerHardt
Banned





Posts: 2
Registered: 8-11-2004
Location: Bornhölm
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 9-11-2004 at 03:49
"HMTD"


(Garbage deleted)

Post something useful or don't post at all. I think this thread has been open for long enough.

Thread closed!

[Edited on 9-11-2004 by I am a fish]




Ä
View user's profile View All Posts By User

  Go To Top