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FEBA
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Gravitational energy
I am looking some no-traditional forms of using the gravitational energy , transforming this to other energy forms (example: mechanical energy) or use
it directly.
Please communicate your suggestions.
Note: These searches don’t related with homework.
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motrin
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Hydro power
is the only form of gravity utilized in any real way.
And even that is really solar energy.
Other than that, gravity is pretty much a one way street.
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Geomancer
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What do you mean by "gravitational energy"?
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Esplosivo
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I think he meant gravitational potential energy.
Theory guides, experiment decides.
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FEBA
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Esplosivo
I think he meant gravitational potential energy. |
Gravitational energy is the same the gravitational potential energy.
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FEBA
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Gravitational potencial energy
| Quote: | Originally posted by Geomancer
What do you mean by "gravitational energy"? |
Gravitational energy is the same the gravitational potential energy.
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Geomancer
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OK, so we're talking about taking mass that's high up, and lowering it. Since gravity's such a weak force, in order to have any
usefulness, you need to lower an enormous mass (since the vertical distance available is limited). About the only waely to easily handle such a large
mass is for it to be a liquid, and the only liquid common enough to be worth considering is water. In terms of effeciency, room for improvement is
limited in large systems: effeciency (I believe) is already well over 90% in state of the art devices. The only radical approach I can think of is
MHD, but I'd be impressed if you could get reasonable effeciencies (>20%) there. For low flow rates you could try using pistons as opposed to
turbines. I believe this has been propesed for tidal plants.
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FEBA
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What mean MHD?
| Quote: | Originally posted by Geomancer
OK, so we're talking about taking mass that's high up, and lowering it. Since gravity's such a weak force, in order to have any
usefulness, you need to lower an enormous mass (since the vertical distance available is limited). About the only waely to easily handle such a large
mass is for it to be a liquid, and the only liquid common enough to be worth considering is water. In terms of effeciency, room for improvement is
limited in large systems: effeciency (I believe) is already well over 90% in state of the art devices. The only radical approach I can think of is
MHD, but I'd be impressed if you could get reasonable effeciencies (>20%) there. For low flow rates you could try using pistons as opposed to
turbines. I believe this has been propesed for tidal plants. |
Thank you for your answer.
What mean MHD?
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Geomancer
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MagnetoHydroDynamics. When charged particles move in a direction not parallel to a magnetic field, they experience a force perpendicular to both the
direction of movement and the magnetic field. The force is proportional to the charge of the particle, so positve charges get pushed in the opposite
direction as negative ones. Therefore, if you run a fast flowing stream of seawater through a magnetic field, a voltage develops across the stream,
and so you can tap off power.
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Hermes_Trismegistus
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Sigh.....
If only there existed streams of seawater....
Arguing on the internet is like running in the special olympics; even if you win: you\'re still retarded.
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chemoleo
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I think in part this has been covered before:
Check this
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=753
Not that I am trying to cut the discussion short, I think that's a very interesting question!
Never Stop to Begin, and Never Begin to Stop...
Tolerance is good. But not with the intolerant! (Wilhelm Busch)
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unionised
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Do tides count as streams of seawater?
At any rate there are tidal power systems.
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IvX
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Outta scope?
I sugested this once I think, basically a huge version of a convensional generator.the magnetised part is on a stalite and the whole thing is in
orbit.
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Geomancer
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With a satellite, the only energy you get out is going to be what you put in while launching the thing. Also, you don't want the satellite to be
the magnetized bit. The Earth is already magnetic, just put a big bit of wire in orbit to get a generator. This idea has actually been experimented
with, as a handy way of making a spacecraft's orbital energy (provided by the rocket launch) available as electric energy.
Err, wait. I think I misread your post. You want both bits in orbit? Whatever for?
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Hermes_Trismegistus
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Big wire in orbit spinning to produce electrical enery, good idea except for one thing.
Electrical generators transmute kinetic energy into electrical.
How would the wire be spun? after all it takes more energy to spin the wire than it would generate by spinning.
Also, when you spin a wire in a magnetic field there is physical resistance proportional to the strength of the field, so you would begin to change
the rotational velocity of the earth!
If you left the wire stationary, and expected the earth to spin within it, it would, and the earth would slow down, while the wire began to move,
until the velocity and direction of spin were to match.
Sorry, can't get away from the law of conservation of energy, no matter what.
Also, if you were to look at what forces should be used for energy production in general, gravity has got to be near the bottom, gravity is an
extraordinarily weak force in comparison to electromagnetism, a good place to look for new sources of energy is within the atom, fusion and fission.
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Geomancer
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Please re-read my post. I am aware of where the energy comes from, and (I thought) I took great pains to make this clear. Also, note that in LEO a
physical loop of wire is not needed, as the circuit can be completed using the Earth's ionosphere. The technique is thought to be useful for
power generation, braking, and, with a power source, propulsion. The main relevant experiment is TSS-1R (Tethered Satellite System 1 Reflight), flown
on STS-75. Additionally, the rotational energy of the earth is not relevant. Momentum is transfered to the earth, but this is parallel to the
satellite's motion. Very little momentum change (of the Earth+satellite system) would actually occur, though, since the exhaust of the launching
rocket would not reach escape velocity.
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Hermes_Trismegistus
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wasn't really replying to you...see prior post (TvX)
but could you provide some background info, don't really know what the hell you're talking about, but sounds intruiging.
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IvX
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Uhh not quite but hey exceltn ideas.Mine was the querr version as in it was just suposed to spin on its own axis.Gay I know 
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FEBA
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Brief backgraund
| Quote: | Originally posted by Hermes_Trismegistus
but could you provide some background info, don't really know what the hell you're talking about, but sounds intruiging.
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Brief background:
I am civil engineer and MBA. I have interest for many years to develop a new and efficient gravitational generator.
I had the US Patent 6,070,712 called High efficiency mechanical transducer called HEMT. You can study in the aforementioned US Patent in the homepage
" United States Patent and Trademarks Office" called http://www.uspto.gov/patft/index.html and search my patent number 6,070,712.
The modifications in my Patent basically consist will is eliminating in it all motors (power takeoff) indicated as: 80, 82, and 70 as shown in my
patent.
I have also presented before 2 projects related to the topic exposed, without success, to the Us Department of Energy.
Best Regards
Fernando Baez
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Hermes_Trismegistus
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I really have to quit expectin people to read my mind.
Geomancer, I know nothing about TSS-1R (Tethered Satellite System 1 Reflight), flown on STS-75, could you please provide background information on
this, or point me in the right direction. That is what sounds intruiging.
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IvX
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Got a link
This is all I could come up with.
So basically your cutting the earth's EM field with the tether?
Lot smarter than the MHD idea I was about to put up.
[Edited on 16-4-2004 by IvX]
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Geomancer
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Regarding tethered satellites, all I know is what Google tells me. I remembered reading about the experiment a few years ago, but not any details.
FEBA: This looks a lot like the classical "overbalanced wheel", no? You're not likely to get many people to believe in your device
unless you have a working model (extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence). Fortunately, your design seems to be constructable at home. I
would suggest using either a rubber belt (like those in car engines, etc.) or bicycle chain. Visit http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/museum/test-pm.htm for helpful advice on the means and pitfalls of testing such devices.
The mother site to the above is an great resource for anyone who is interested in physics.
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IvX
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The overbalanced wheel idea does seem feasible.Though not an actual PMM but harnesing gravitational energy.Perhaps newer deviced with insly low
friction will pull it of(or a planet with mor gravety).
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Hermes_Trismegistus
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| Quote: | Originally posted by IvX
The overbalanced wheel idea does seem feasible. |
Perhaps it does seem that way, many men have wasted whole lives in the pursuit of that foolish dream.
It is the Philosophers Stone of the machine age. And just as futile a quest, it will be regarded with as much disdain by future generations of
physicists as the quest for trasmution of lead to gold is by chemists today.
P.S. you sound as if you were drifting off at the end of that last post......were you being overcome by Gravety?
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Geomancer
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To my eyes, overbalanced wheels are the most convincing of the classical mechanical PMMs. Regarding friction, etc. , the effect that supposedly makes
them work is not subtle, so if they were to work at all, they'd work well enough for that not to be a major issue.
The convincingness of the concept is manifest in the fact that, all rational knowledge to the contrary, people still build these things, with
minimal modifications from their inception centuries ago (the earliest known description of an overbalanced wheel is from c. 1159).
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