Sciencemadness Discussion Board
Not logged in [Login ]
Go To Bottom

Printable Version  
 Pages:  1  2
Author: Subject: Aluminum Shavings
jimwig
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 215
Registered: 17-5-2003
Location: the sunny south
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 30-5-2004 at 14:47


Mumbles- can you be more specific as to the size of screens you are talking about.

Window screen I got. But other sizes as in standard screening sizes.

for instance window screen is probably around 35 or so.

I guess the idea is to get it as fine as possible and then classify it, eh? cause using our level of grinding/milling equipment would produce all sizes eventually ???

I have stainless in sizes down to around a 80 and the idea of a 300 or finer screen blows me away. HaHa

[Edited on 30-5-2004 by jimwig]
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Mumbles
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 436
Registered: 12-3-2003
Location: US
Member Is Offline

Mood: Procrastinating

[*] posted on 31-5-2004 at 19:34


I'm not exactly sure on the size of the super fine screen. I'd imagine 20-25 holes per 1" line. Thats somewhere between 400 and 625 mesh. I'll get out a magnifying glass and count them once I return to my mom's. I found it laying around the house, but can be purchased at basically any grocery store. It's a permanant coffee filter. Quite a usefull little tool in screening things for pyro.
View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User This user has MSN Messenger
Chemtastic
Harmless
*




Posts: 31
Registered: 19-6-2004
Location: Connecticut, USA
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 19-6-2004 at 08:58


Hi! This is my first post here, but I've been looking around for awhile, and this is a really great site.

I've never tried this method, but wouldn't it be possible to obtain aluminum powder by displacing a soluble metal cation with aluminum, then displacing the aqueous aluminum with another, more reactive metal? For example:

First, Al(s) + 3CuCl(aq) --> AlCl3(aq) + 3Cu(s)

Then, 3Mg(s) + 2AlCl3(aq) --> 3MgCl2(aq) + 2Al(s)

The initial aluminum wouldn't have to be powdered (though surface area would help), and magnesium is available as firestarters for cheap at WalMart (pretty high %age too, I think >97%)

Aluminum would crystallize out of solution, but would the crystals be small enough? I'm not sure; like I said, I've never tried this.

PS - How can BB Code be used for subscript and superscript?
View user's profile View All Posts By User
BromicAcid
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 3217
Registered: 13-7-2003
Location: Wisconsin
Member Is Offline

Mood: Rock n' Roll

[*] posted on 19-6-2004 at 09:35


Aluminum obtained in this way, under water, one molecule at a time will undoubtedly contain a high percentage of aluminum oxide. I was once chastised for mentioning this method on rec.pyrotechnics, turns out it was mentioned in one of the 'anarchist' texts floating around on the net and had been tried extensively by some with dismal results.



Shamelessly plugging my attempts at writing fiction: http://www.robvincent.org
View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User
axehandle
Free Radical
*****




Posts: 1065
Registered: 30-12-2003
Location: Sweden
Member Is Offline

Mood: horny

[*] posted on 19-6-2004 at 09:48


One way to prevent oxide forming could perhaps be to use ethanol as a solvent...? Aluminum chloride is soluable in ethanol I think --- the former is the active ingredient in many antiperspirants.



My PGP key, Fingerprint 5D96 E09E 365D 1867 2DF5 C2FE 4269 9C19 E079 CD35

\"Verbing nouns weirds the language!\"
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Chemtastic
Harmless
*




Posts: 31
Registered: 19-6-2004
Location: Connecticut, USA
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 19-6-2004 at 09:52


Then (sorry if this is a stupid question) where does the oxygen come from? Can elemental aluminum pull it right out of the water:
2Al(s) + 3H2O(l) --> Al2O3(s) + 3H2(g)?

I've never heard of water splitting into anything besides H+ and OH-
View user's profile View All Posts By User
axehandle
Free Radical
*****




Posts: 1065
Registered: 30-12-2003
Location: Sweden
Member Is Offline

Mood: horny

[*] posted on 19-6-2004 at 10:09


Sorry if this is a stupid answer, but AFAIK, water always contains a small percentage of dissolved air in it, and that's where the oxygen comes from. I could be amazingly wrong here, but this, to me, sounds like the most plausible explanation...

So, if one could remove all the air.........




My PGP key, Fingerprint 5D96 E09E 365D 1867 2DF5 C2FE 4269 9C19 E079 CD35

\"Verbing nouns weirds the language!\"
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Chemtastic
Harmless
*




Posts: 31
Registered: 19-6-2004
Location: Connecticut, USA
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 19-6-2004 at 10:12


ooh good point...forgot about that...water at 75-90 C then, maybe...
View user's profile View All Posts By User
unionised
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 5098
Registered: 1-11-2003
Location: UK
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 19-6-2004 at 10:32


Aluminium is a very good reducing agent, quite adequate for reducing water to hydrogen.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
axehandle
Free Radical
*****




Posts: 1065
Registered: 30-12-2003
Location: Sweden
Member Is Offline

Mood: horny

[*] posted on 19-6-2004 at 11:37


Oh. Well, you learn something new every day...



My PGP key, Fingerprint 5D96 E09E 365D 1867 2DF5 C2FE 4269 9C19 E079 CD35

\"Verbing nouns weirds the language!\"
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Hang-Man
Hazard to Self
**




Posts: 70
Registered: 16-1-2004
Location: Canada
Member Is Offline

Mood: Wasted

[*] posted on 23-6-2004 at 15:09


This process works well for both copper and zinc powder production, I have done them both with success. (Good enough for pyro anyway, if you need some pure metal powders you're out of luck) Disolve Cu or Zn pennies in HCl, wait, and dump in Al to precipitate the powder.

(If someone can think of something to do with aluminum chloride tell me)




View user's profile View All Posts By User This user has MSN Messenger
Saerynide
National Hazard
****




Posts: 954
Registered: 17-11-2003
Location: The Void
Member Is Offline

Mood: Ionic

[*] posted on 25-6-2004 at 20:11


maybe you could electrolyse the AlCl3 with carbon electrodes to get a powdery Al coating on the cathode that could be easily scraped off?



"Microsoft reserves the right at all times to monitor communications on the Service and disclose any information Microsoft deems necessary to... satisfy any applicable law, regulation or legal process"
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Organikum
resurrected
*****




Posts: 2327
Registered: 12-10-2002
Location: Europe
Member Is Offline

Mood: busy and in love

[*] posted on 26-6-2004 at 03:07


You would need anhydrous AlCl3 and then you could do an electrolysis on the molten salt. This is a old process of producing aluminium, before bauxite electrolysis was developed. The Al would be not in a powder form though.
Anhydrous AlCl3 is highly hygroscopic, it fumes in contact with the moisture of air.

Aluminium reacts with water as it does with alcohols. It is only protected by a layer of aluminiumoxide.
The reaction with water:
Al +H2O = AlOH + H

BMW did tests with a utilizing this reaction where Al-wire was highspeed grinded under water producing hydrogen for a combustion engine.

Aluminium is used as a reducing agent in organic chemistry, for this the oxide layer is deactivated by amalgamating the aluminium with mercury.

At automotive supply shops high-temperature Al-spray is sold containing 99,9% Al. I am rather sure that emtying such a bottle into a suitable solvent will produce very fine Al-powder. What solvent is to used depends on the composition of the spray, water and alcohol are for sure not suitable. Mineral spirits, benzine, the high-boiling fraction, thats what I would suggest to try first. But I never did it myself up to now, so dont nail me if it doesnt work.




Irgendwas is ja immer
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Saerynide
National Hazard
****




Posts: 954
Registered: 17-11-2003
Location: The Void
Member Is Offline

Mood: Ionic

[*] posted on 26-6-2004 at 06:10


So electrolysing aqueous AlCl3 would only give Al(OH)3? :(



"Microsoft reserves the right at all times to monitor communications on the Service and disclose any information Microsoft deems necessary to... satisfy any applicable law, regulation or legal process"
View user's profile View All Posts By User
sanity gone
Harmless
*




Posts: 38
Registered: 25-4-2004
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 26-6-2004 at 08:42


I think the blender method might produce a aluminum powder becuase I'm pretty sure they use a wax coating that would prevent the formation of Al(OH)3
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Saerynide
National Hazard
****




Posts: 954
Registered: 17-11-2003
Location: The Void
Member Is Offline

Mood: Ionic

[*] posted on 29-6-2004 at 21:55


Has anyone tried to use aluminum glitter as a source? Like the paint method, I suppose one could remove the plastic coating on the glitter using acetone or ethyl acetate. I think the sparkliest glitters are the Al ones, according to this link:

http://www.meadowbrookinventions.com/loband/glitter_products...

It's also extremely fine :D




"Microsoft reserves the right at all times to monitor communications on the Service and disclose any information Microsoft deems necessary to... satisfy any applicable law, regulation or legal process"
View user's profile View All Posts By User
AllanD
Harmless
*




Posts: 23
Registered: 16-7-2006
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 17-7-2006 at 12:08


Quote:
Originally posted by 4s2
I was cleaning out my truck the other day when I stubled upon my E-Repair kit. In it was a small tube of powder called AlumaSeal- Radiator Sealer. Inside the 20 gram tube, looks to be just finely ground aluminum. But Pouring aluminum into your radiator can't be good enough on its own. I wondered, what ELSE is in this, what could be a way to extract the aluminum from it, and mostly, how does AlumaSeal work to fix the metalic parts of your radiator? (it safely works with all parts (plastic, rubber etc) but does not work to on these parts to fix leaks.)



Would you believe me if I told you the main active ingredient
is actually ground oatmeal?

There is only enough aluminum flake in it to "color" the oat granules.

the stuff functions by absorbing water and expanding, hopefully while a granule is caught in the crack that was leaking....

AllanD
View user's profile View All Posts By User
 Pages:  1  2

  Go To Top