| Pages:
1
2 |
hodges
National Hazard
Posts: 525
Registered: 17-12-2003
Location: Midwest
Member Is Offline
|
|
12.5% NAOCl from Grocery Store!
Local grocery store also sells pool chemicals in the summer. I found "Liquid Chlorinator - for chlorination of swimming pools. Active
ingredient: Sodium Hypochlorite 12.5%. Store and transport upright - vented cap". Cost was $4 for 1 gallon.
|
|
|
Magpie
lab constructor
Posts: 5939
Registered: 1-11-2003
Location: USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Chemistry: the subtle science.
|
|
swimming pools are good!
I also found NaBr, Na2CO3, & Ca(OCl)2 all at 100% at pool supply stores.
The single most important condition for a successful synthesis is good mixing - Nicodem
|
|
|
The_Davster
A pnictogen
Posts: 2861
Registered: 18-11-2003
Member Is Offline
Mood: .
|
|
The maximum concentration of NaOCl I have found is 10.8% as liquid shock treatment. 5$ for 5L
|
|
|
Mendeleev
Hazard to Others
Posts: 237
Registered: 25-12-2003
Location: USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: stoned
|
|
100% Ca(ClO)2? Could you give me the name of this pool store and the name of the brand?
Trogdor was a man. A dragon man. Or maybe just a dragon. . .
|
|
|
I am a fish
undersea enforcer
Posts: 600
Registered: 16-1-2003
Location: Bath, United Kingdom
Member Is Offline
Mood: Ichthyoidal
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by Magpie
I also found ... Ca(OCl)2 ... at 100% at pool supply stores. |
That seems unlikely. It's far more likely to be the mixture of Ca(OCl)2, CaCl2 and CaOCl2, that results from passing chlorine gas over calcium
hydroxide. This mixture (known as "bleaching powder", "chloride of lime" or "calcium oxychloride" is also sold by laboratory suppliers. For most practical purposes, it is just as good
as pure hypochlorite, as chloride ions are relatively inert.
1f `/0u (4|\\| |234d 7|-|15, `/0u |234||`/ |\\|33d 70 937 0u7 /\\/\\0|23.
|
|
|
Magpie
lab constructor
Posts: 5939
Registered: 1-11-2003
Location: USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Chemistry: the subtle science.
|
|
calcium hypochlorite
For one year, about 10 or 15 years ago, I was maintenance manager of a neighborhood communal swimming pool. The chlorinating agent we used was
calcium hypochlorite, at least that is what I remember everyone calling it and what the 40 lb drum was labeled. A year or 2 later the pool switched
to the tablets which have chlorine bound in an organic compound, and I think this is probably what's used almost exclusively today for small
pools.
I will be gone for a few days but when I return I'll check with the local pool chemicals suppliers to see what they have.
My trip is for fishing/relaxing in the mountains. I will be passing through a gold mining area and will stop to pick up a small iron mortar &
pestle for the pulverizing of my gold ore.
The single most important condition for a successful synthesis is good mixing - Nicodem
|
|
|
chemoleo
Biochemicus Energeticus
Posts: 3005
Registered: 23-7-2003
Location: England Germany
Member Is Offline
Mood: crystalline
|
|
By the way, 100% Ca(OCl)2 is a solid, so no point dealing with percentages! It is stable in isolation, unlike NaOCl. I know this because I have 500 g
of this lying about 
Never Stop to Begin, and Never Begin to Stop...
Tolerance is good. But not with the intolerant! (Wilhelm Busch)
|
|
|
Organikum
resurrected
Posts: 2329
Registered: 12-10-2002
Location: Europe
Member Is Offline
Mood: busy and in love
|
|
If it says something like 60%+ available chlorine its almost pure calcium hypochlorite. If it says 30%+ its bleaching powder and if its around 90% its
probably TCCA or related.
as a rule of thumb.
|
|
|
The_Davster
A pnictogen
Posts: 2861
Registered: 18-11-2003
Member Is Offline
Mood: .
|
|
I have a bag of calcium hypochlorite.
It is listed as "65% Ca(OCl)2" and "65% available chlorine" So how pure is this?, the 65% Ca(OCl)2 conflicts with Organikum's
statement that 65% available chlorine is almost pure hypochlorite.
|
|
|
Magpie
lab constructor
Posts: 5939
Registered: 1-11-2003
Location: USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Chemistry: the subtle science.
|
|
pool chemical Ca(OCl)2
I checked out 2 pool chemical suppliers today. They have or can get Ca(OCl)2 and say it is 65% "available chlorine." I'm thinking
that this is jargon for 65% OCl as this would be the sanitizing/oxidizing part of this compound. The wt% OCl is = 102.9/142.9 = 0.72, or 72% for pure
Ca(OCl)2. This seems more than a coincidence.
Also Guardex, a common US manufacturer lists its "Guardex Breakpoint Shock" as 100% Ca(OCl)2 on its MSDS at http://www.goldenc.com/acrobat/coshhsheets/Guardex/Breakpoin...
Another good site for pool chemical information is: http://www.poolandspa.com/page35.htm
[Edited on 1-7-2004 by Magpie]
The single most important condition for a successful synthesis is good mixing - Nicodem
|
|
|
hodges
National Hazard
Posts: 525
Registered: 17-12-2003
Location: Midwest
Member Is Offline
|
|
I found calcium hypochlorite (solid) at the same grocery store. Cost just under $3 for 1 pound, comes in a white plastic bag. On the label:
| Quote: |
Domestic Pool Shock
For Super Chlorination
Active Ingredient: Calcium Hypochlorite 65%
Inert Ingredient: 35%
Aqua-Tek
Made in Canada
|
|
|
|
MadHatter
International Hazard
Posts: 1332
Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Maine
Member Is Offline
Mood: Enjoying retirement
|
|
Calcium Hypochlorite
Pure calcium hypochlorite is 49.59% chlorine. The last pool shock I bought
was 93% Ca(OCl)2.
|
|
|
Magpie
lab constructor
Posts: 5939
Registered: 1-11-2003
Location: USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Chemistry: the subtle science.
|
|
HTH swimming pool Ca(OCl)2
I just bought some "HTH Super Sock It" shock treatment for swimming pools ($3 for 1 lb). On the package it says 78% calcium hypochlorite
and 22% "other ingredients." Needing to know what the other ingredients were I called and obtained an MSDS (it is noteworthy that said MSDS
is not available on their website). The MSDS says:
calcium hypochorite......65-90%
sodium chloride..............0-3%
calcium chlorate..............0-5%
calcium chloride..............0-5%
calcium hydroxide...........0-5%
calcium carbonate...........0-4%
water..............................8-16%
As a historical note I found that my freshman chemistry text (40+ yrs old) refers to H.T.H (high test hypochlorite) as a product that yields
"almost twice as great a proportion of hypochlorite" as regular "bleaching powder."
Regular bleaching powder is made by passing chlorine over dry slaked lime:
Ca(OH)2 + Cl2 = H2O + CaCl(OCl)
This reaction is heterogeneous and does not go to completion.
The single most important condition for a successful synthesis is good mixing - Nicodem
|
|
|
JohnWW
International Hazard
Posts: 2849
Registered: 27-7-2004
Location: New Zealand
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
"Chloride of lime" (mostly calcium hypochlorite) is very corrosive to metal containers, undergoing slow decomposition (and hydrolysis if
water vapor is present) in storage. I once bought some of it in a tinned steel container in the 1960s, and after a year or so it had eaten through it.
BTW THe strongest NaOCl solution that can be bought in a supermarket as household bleach, at least in my area, seems to be 3.67 gm/liter, or 0.367
parts/100 parts water. If 12% appears to be obtainable, I would say that supermarket consumers are being ripped off, because of the extra costs of
larger containers, and of carting and storing a lot more water. Its solubility ranges from 26 parts/100 parts at 0ºC to 158 parts/100 parts at 56ºC,
much higher than the above concentrations. (At higher temperatures it probably decomposes).
John W.
|
|
|
vulture
Forum Gatekeeper
Posts: 3330
Registered: 25-5-2002
Location: France
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Endconsumers are always being ripped off when it comes to chemicals. Ethanol, methanol, acetic acid,...etc.
The price usually is atleast 400% of what it's worth.
One shouldn't accept or resort to the mutilation of science to appease the mentally impaired.
|
|
|
Polverone
Now celebrating 21 years of madness
Posts: 3186
Registered: 19-5-2002
Location: The Sunny Pacific Northwest
Member Is Offline
Mood: Waiting for spring
|
|
"What it's worth" is of course "whatever people are willing to pay for it." I do agree that consumer chemical products are
far more expensive, per quantity, than the industrial equivalent purchased in 55 gallon drums or even larger units. What do you expect when sodium
hypochlorite solution is advertised on TV and people actually have brand loyalty to different sodium bicarbonate distributors? I can barely bring
myself to care about this since lab chemicals are overpriced by another order of magnitude and hence form the "price bottleneck" that limits
what I buy.
PGP Key and corresponding e-mail address
|
|
|
Mumbles
Hazard to Others
Posts: 436
Registered: 12-3-2003
Location: US
Member Is Offline
Mood: Procrastinating
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by JohnWW
BTW THe strongest NaOCl solution that can be bought in a supermarket as household bleach, at least in my area, seems to be 3.67 gm/liter, or 0.367
parts/100 parts water. If 12% appears to be obtainable, I would say that supermarket consumers are being ripped off, because of the extra costs of
larger containers, and of carting and storing a lot more water.
|
There is a difference in pool bleach and washing bleach though. I'd imagine using 12% bleach on clothing may be enough to damage them.
I've had 6% make a whole in my shirt before. I suppose it wouldn't be bad if all you did is add it to the wash, but if you even remove
stains with it by adding directly to the article of clothing itself it may present some damage risk.
It would make sense to me to just use 12%, but half as much as 6%(the common one around here). Can't get the liquid pool chlorinator though.
Also going by the prices in here 6% is still cheaper. it is $1.39 a gallon as of last week. This is still over a dollar cheaper than any of the
prices mentioned so far.
I can't even get the liquid pool chlorinator. I have looked high and low in 3 different major cities not to mention countless different small
community hardware stores and grocery stores. They only carry solid chlorinating granules and the HTH shock of course.
[Edited on 8-29-2004 by Mumbles]
|
|
|
battar30
Harmless
Posts: 1
Registered: 12-1-2005
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
calcium chlorate
| Quote: | Originally posted by Magpie
I just bought some "HTH Super Sock It" shock treatment for swimming pools ($3 for 1 lb). On the package it says 78% calcium hypochlorite
and 22% "other ingredients." Needing to know what the other ingredients were I called and obtained an MSDS (it is noteworthy that said MSDS
is not available on their website). The MSDS says:
calcium hypochorite......65-90%
sodium chloride..............0-3%
calcium chlorate..............0-5%
calcium chloride..............0-5%
calcium hydroxide...........0-5%
calcium carbonate...........0-4%
water..............................8-16%
As a historical note I found that my freshman chemistry text (40+ yrs old) refers to H.T.H (high test hypochlorite) as a product that yields
"almost twice as great a proportion of hypochlorite" as regular "bleaching powder."
Regular bleaching powder is made by passing chlorine over dry slaked lime:
Ca(OH)2 + Cl2 = H2O + CaCl(OCl)
This reaction is heterogeneous and does not go to completion. |
battar
|
|
|
frogfot
Hazard to Others
Posts: 212
Registered: 30-11-2002
Location: Sweden
Member Is Offline
Mood: happy
|
|
When thermally decomposing calcium hypochlorite in water it seems to evolve alot of gases (relatively nonsmelly). Anyone has a good explanation on
what this may be?
I know that in presence of some catalysts as cobalt salts, on heating in water, hypochlorite will decomp to oxygene. Or maby even simpler, since
product may have a carbonate (from Magpies MSDS), maby it disproportionates to CO2 (although soln is quite basic).
First explanation sounds better... if it's right, how could one "kill" all present catalysts??
Btw, my pool chock chlorine says to contain 100% calcium hypochlorite 
|
|
|
neutrino
International Hazard
Posts: 1583
Registered: 20-8-2004
Location: USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: oscillating
|
|
Try a chelating agent for the heavy metal ions. I’m not sure where you could buy EDTA, but others should work. In Mega’s hydrazine synth, for
example, gelatin is used.
|
|
|
frogfot
Hazard to Others
Posts: 212
Registered: 30-11-2002
Location: Sweden
Member Is Offline
Mood: happy
|
|
Wouldn't formed complex dissociate at elevated temps.. I have also a feeling that theese agents will get oxidised pretty fast..
[Edited on 5-2-2005 by frogfot]
|
|
|
hodges
National Hazard
Posts: 525
Registered: 17-12-2003
Location: Midwest
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by hodges
I found calcium hypochlorite (solid) at the same grocery store. Cost just under $3 for 1 pound, comes in a white plastic bag.
|
Interesting followup to this. Since the chemical was packaged in a plastic bag (designed for use all at once), I needed to store this in a container.
I used a 1-liter plastic bottle that used to hold a carbonated drink. I have not used this particular chemical in over a year, so most of it is
still in the bottle. Recently I noticed when I grabbed this bottle that it appeared to be under pressure. I opened the top slightly and a lot of
pressure was released - about like when opening a drink that has been shaken. The gas was not chlorine because it was colorless in the bottle. It
did have a slight pool odor but nothing like would have been the case had it been all chlorine. I'm guessing the gas was oxygen, since hypochlorites
can produce oxygen from water (usually in sunlight though). Anyway, this is something to keep in mind if storing calcium hypochlorite - open the
bottle once in a while to relieve any pressure that has built up.
|
|
|
BromicAcid
International Hazard
Posts: 3227
Registered: 13-7-2003
Location: Wisconsin
Member Is Offline
Mood: Rock n' Roll
|
|
Hodges, I noticed the same thing, I have a large amber jar with about 4 kg of Ca(OCl)<sub>2</sub> and it built up somewhat considerable
pressure when I opened it last, like you said, it didn't seem like it was all chlorine or anything though I wouldn't doubt some being in there. My
lithium hypochlorite does it to an even greater extent. Which begs the question, why are'nt the little plastic bags you buy of it from the hardward
store bulging from decomosition gasses? Either 1) The plastics are permeable to the gas; 2) Something in the air is catalyzing the decomosition
(doubtful); or 3) Light is causing the decomosition. As for the light I don't think that is a major factor, like I said, I have mine in an amber
bottle in a dark shed and it still decomposes, so really that leaves me with the first opinion. I have to wonder how much it has decomposed in the
last few years though.
|
|
|
woelen
Super Administrator
Posts: 7977
Registered: 20-8-2005
Location: Netherlands
Member Is Offline
Mood: interested
|
|
I also noticed this, but there is quite a difference between batches. I have calcium hypochlorite 65% active chlorine from HTH, and this has a VERY
strong smell of chlorine and it produces pressure. I also have 70% active chlorine stuff, which is odorless and does not result in pressure buildup.
I store the material in a thick glass bottle with a chlorine resistant cap, in which I drilled a very small hole. Over the hole I put some adhesive
tape. When the bottles cools down, causing underpressure, then the air-inlet is blocked, due to the tape. Just in case the pressure would become too
high, the tape will be pressed away from the hole and the gas can be released. This storage is a good compromise between safety on long-term storage
and on the other hand not to have free flow of air, going in and out of the container at each thermal cycle.
|
|
|
The_Davster
A pnictogen
Posts: 2861
Registered: 18-11-2003
Member Is Offline
Mood: .
|
|
I have had the same thing happen, it gave me quite the fright when I opened the mason jar of pool chlorinator after several months. Rather loud POP
when I opened it. Over the last year or so I open it every month or so, it seems that the gas evolution decreases with time.
|
|
|
| Pages:
1
2 |
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
