KonkreteRocketry
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LiFO4
Since F > Cl > Br > Iodine
and F have a lesser weight, then LiFO4(71% O) will have a much higher oxygen content than LiClO4(60% O), and NH4ClO4(54%, NASA's rocket oxidizer) but
LiFO4 info are so scarce and i can barely even find a title named LiClO4.
Any help please.
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simply RED
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You should go back in high school, fluorine does not form such compounds.
When logic and proportion have fallen sloppy dead...
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DraconicAcid
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Information of lithium perfluorate is scarce because it doesn't exist. The only oxyacid of fluorine is hypofluoric acid, and it's not very stable
(Cotton & Wilkinson, Advanced Inorganic Chemistry, 6th Ed., which does not mention any salts of fluorine-based oxyanions. Greenwood's Chemistry
of the Elements says a little more about HOF, noting that it can decompose spontaneously at room temp with a half-life of 30 minutes, forming oxygen
and HF (and only sometimes explodes).
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AndersHoveland
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There is tetrafluoroammonium perchlorate, NF4ClO4, although it appears to have an unusually high vapor pressure, possibly due to slight
dissassociation into NF3 and FOClO3.
There are also nitroformates, C(NO2)3-, and tetranitratoborates, B(NO3)4-, both of which are quite stable, at least enough for use in propellents.
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simply RED
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Andres, can you systemize the information on nitroformates, C(NO2)3-, and tetranitratoborates, B(NO3)4- and post it here. It could be interesting.
When logic and proportion have fallen sloppy dead...
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woelen
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Fluorine does not form any oxoanions, even the fleeting HOF hardly can be considered an oxo-acid of fluorine, it can better be regarded as a
fluoro-compound of oxygen, with oxygen at oxidation state 0 in this compound and fluorine at its ordinary -1 oxidation state. A better name for this
compound would be hydroxyl fluoride instead of hydrogen hypofluorite.
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AndersHoveland
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Quote: Originally posted by simply RED  | | Andres, can you systemize the information on nitroformates, C(NO2)3-, and tetranitratoborates, B(NO3)4- and post it here. It could be interesting.
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tetranitratoborates have already been mentioned in the Lithium Perchlorate LiClO4 thread:
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=22790
I have already posted some information on nitroformates in "Hydrazinium Propellants" topic:
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=1721
although you might want to type "trinitromethane" or "nitroform" in the search function of this forum, since nitroformates are simply the salt of
trinitromethane, produced when it reacts with a base.
Although nitroform is mostly a colorless liquid, nitroformate salts are bright yellow. Since tetranitratoborates contain boron, their deflagration
will no doubt result in green flames.
I'm not saying let's go kill all the stupid people...I'm just saying lets remove all the warning labels and let the problem sort itself out.
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KonkreteRocketry
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Can we possibly try to make it ? There are some oxygen - flourine compounds like HFO and CF3OF and i also saw a report arguing CH3COOF exists, how can
we overcome the problems of flourine's eletronegative problem ?
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DraconicAcid
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| Quote: Originally posted by KonkreteRocketry | | Can we possibly try to make it ? There are some oxygen - flourine compounds like HFO and CF3OF and i also saw a report arguing CH3COOF exists, how can
we overcome the problems of flourine's eletronegative problem ? |
You can try, but I'll happily put money on you not succeeding. You see, to make fluorine have more than one bond, you are forcing fluorine to share
its electrons with a less electronegative element. But fluorine doesn't share its electrons- it shares the electrons of other atoms (it's kinda like
a banker that way- it will share your money, but not his own).
When chlorine forms HClO2, the chlorine has two lone pairs and two bonds to oxygen; this means that chlorine either has a formal positive charge (low
electron density), or a double bond to one of the oxygens (depending on which bonding model you are using). Either one is fine, since chlorine has
available d orbitals for the multiple bonding, as well as being less electronegative than oxygen (so it can deal with a positive formal charge).
Fluorine, on the other hand, has neither- it has no d orbitals in valence shells, and it is much more electronegative than oxygen. So HFO2 isn't
going to exist. HFO3 is even less likely. HFO4 is right out.
There are some compounds of oxygen and fluorine- as you mention, CF3OF, HOF, and F2O. All of these have fluorine atoms with only one bond to oxygen.
You will not find an example of a fluorine with two bonds to oxygen.
Please remember: "Filtrate" is not a verb.
Write up your lab reports the way your instructor wants them, not the way your ex-instructor wants them.
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KonkreteRocketry
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| Quote: Originally posted by DraconicAcid | | Quote: Originally posted by KonkreteRocketry | | Can we possibly try to make it ? There are some oxygen - flourine compounds like HFO and CF3OF and i also saw a report arguing CH3COOF exists, how can
we overcome the problems of flourine's eletronegative problem ? |
You can try, but I'll happily put money on you not succeeding. You see, to make fluorine have more than one bond, you are forcing fluorine to share
its electrons with a less electronegative element. But fluorine doesn't share its electrons- it shares the electrons of other atoms (it's kinda like
a banker that way- it will share your money, but not his own).
When chlorine forms HClO2, the chlorine has two lone pairs and two bonds to oxygen; this means that chlorine either has a formal positive charge (low
electron density), or a double bond to one of the oxygens (depending on which bonding model you are using). Either one is fine, since chlorine has
available d orbitals for the multiple bonding, as well as being less electronegative than oxygen (so it can deal with a positive formal charge).
Fluorine, on the other hand, has neither- it has no d orbitals in valence shells, and it is much more electronegative than oxygen. So HFO2 isn't
going to exist. HFO3 is even less likely. HFO4 is right out.
There are some compounds of oxygen and fluorine- as you mention, CF3OF, HOF, and F2O. All of these have fluorine atoms with only one bond to oxygen.
You will not find an example of a fluorine with two bonds to oxygen. |
Can we bond O on to it self or to the H then ? like H=O_F_O=O=O
Since flourine and H2O make HFO like this with H2O bonds like H-O-H
F2 + H2O → HFO + HF
Does flourine react with HO3 with structure H-O-O-O-H
F2 + H2O3 → HFO3 + HF
Or with hydrogen peroxide with H_O-O_H
F2 H2O2 → HFO2 + HF
Is this possible ?
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