Trotsky
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Alternatives to Al in Tannerite?
I was wondering if anyone could suggest alternatives to using Al powder in bullet sensitive AN mixtures?
I have never tried it, but I assume ANFO is not bullet sensitive.
Is it sensitive with acetone, 99% Isopropanol? Perhaps nitromethane?
If this has been answered before, I apologize, I didn't see anything when I searched, though.
Thanks!
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Bert
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Mood: " I think we are all going to die. I think that love is an illusion. We are flawed, my darling".
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Yes, it's been asked before.
Google boomershoot.org
Rapopart’s Rules for critical commentary:
1. Attempt to re-express your target’s position so clearly, vividly and fairly that your target says: “Thanks, I wish I’d thought of putting it
that way.”
2. List any points of agreement (especially if they are not matters of general or widespread agreement).
3. Mention anything you have learned from your target.
4. Only then are you permitted to say so much as a word of rebuttal or criticism.
Anatol Rapoport was a Russian-born American mathematical psychologist (1911-2007).
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Motherload
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Mg, Zi, Ti .... Nothing as commonly available as Al.
Tannerite also has NH4ClO4 in it.
If you are going to start mixing liquids into it than it isn't the tannerite concept anymore. Nitroglycerin nitro glycol etc are going to be 7.62 NATO
sensitive.
"Chance favours the prepared mind"
"Fuck It !! We'll do it live !!"
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Bert
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Mood: " I think we are all going to die. I think that love is an illusion. We are flawed, my darling".
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The boomer shoot mix doesn't have or need perchlorate. It is also very cheap.
The perchlorate in Tannerite is added because of US laws regarding sales of pure ammonium nitrate to non licensed people, not because it is needed or
even helpful to the performance of the targets.
I'm not too concerned about doctrinal purity of "the Tannerite concept". Ammonium nitrate based bullet sensitive binary explosives are the concept.
Rapopart’s Rules for critical commentary:
1. Attempt to re-express your target’s position so clearly, vividly and fairly that your target says: “Thanks, I wish I’d thought of putting it
that way.”
2. List any points of agreement (especially if they are not matters of general or widespread agreement).
3. Mention anything you have learned from your target.
4. Only then are you permitted to say so much as a word of rebuttal or criticism.
Anatol Rapoport was a Russian-born American mathematical psychologist (1911-2007).
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Motherload
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I wonder how a 25:75 mix of ETN and AN from acetone would work as bullet sensitive.
"Chance favours the prepared mind"
"Fuck It !! We'll do it live !!"
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feacetech
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Al powder is difficult to get where I come from
However I have some Al powder
Its not 100% it contains some Carbon anode (carbon mixed with coal tar pitch)
This was obatined from a filter where carbon anodes are sprayed with molten Al
its not super fine but i have 100 g thats has been passed through a 103um sieve 100%
so its >104 mesh
if i shake it and open the lid a very fine dust will float out, so ther is definatly some very fine paricles in the mix.
Would this be suitable (ie fine enough) for a Al:AN bullet sensitive mix?
Alternitvly I could source some
Ajax ALUMINIUM, fine powder, TECHNICAL
average particle size 40um
However I already have the <103um material
[Edited on 28-2-2013 by feacetech]
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Motherload
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How did you separate the carbon from the aluminium ?
I have a feeling you will have a lot of carbon in the mix.
I can't buy aluminium powder here as well.
That's why I bought a $50 ball mill/polisher of eBay.
I keep collecting scrap Al turnings from the lathe and mill at work and run them through a cheap coffee grinder and leave the coarse powder in the
ball mill for a few days. I have made a little vent hole in the drum for air to get in otherwise the Al powder may become pyrophoric.
You can also use aluminum foil used for baking etc and power it up.
"Chance favours the prepared mind"
"Fuck It !! We'll do it live !!"
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feacetech
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I havnt seperated the the carbon, theres not a huge amount in ther a rough guess would be 10%
[Edited on 28-2-2013 by feacetech]
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Motherload
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I think 10% carbon would reduce the sensitivity of the mix.
If you can't get Aluminum powder .... Sulfur powder might work to sensitize NH4NO3.
"Chance favours the prepared mind"
"Fuck It !! We'll do it live !!"
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feacetech
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Now i had an idea, i dont have a ball mill but i have a ring mill
would it be safe to reduce my powder down further with this
or would this be too dangerous
It has an o ring and would be difficult to open slowly, i could twist the lid a little at a time over time making sure its not getting hot
the ring mill has some sort of hardend coating and has been used in the past to reduce all sorts of samples for xrf
The lab staff remebred they use to mill aluminium in this
the other factor is it may just take too long to reduce it this way I am unsure if the shaker roatator could handle hours of operation? it has only
ever been run at 2-3mins at a time.
On a side note i have plenty of fine AR grade zinc powder can this sensitise AN edit: (scrap that idea its too reactive with zinc and can ignite with
water)
[Edited on 7-3-2013 by feacetech]
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Trotsky
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What can ignite with water? AN? No way.
Have you mixed powdered zinc in AN? I would think it'd be fine, but it wouldn't sensitize it as much as AN.
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feacetech
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AN and Zinc can ignite with water
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Trotsky
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Oh the mix, gotcha. It wouldn't really matter, though, you're mixing it up just prior to use and not holding it for any length of time, right?
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Fantasma4500
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i guess Li, Na, K, Rb, Cs and Fr could be used
aswell as Cerium, or ferrocerium which easily sentisizes flashpowders
perhaps even Ca metal?
but Al would be the best as its relatively easy to get a hold of and even make yourself as fine powder, and isnt overly reactive to oxygen at normal
temperatures..
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Trotsky
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Yeah, I wasn't asking because I can't make Al powder, that's simple, I was asking just because I was interested in alternative components to add to AN
to yield a bullet-detonate-able blend.
What about Nitrocellulose? It's fairly friction and impact resistant. Perhaps adding 5% soot/lamp black (probably soot for the higher PAH content
and ease of production- just run an old kerosene burner without enough air.
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Motherload
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Quote: Originally posted by Antiswat  | i guess Li, Na, K, Rb, Cs and Fr could be used
aswell as Cerium, or ferrocerium which easily sentisizes flashpowders
perhaps even Ca metal?
but Al would be the best as its relatively easy to get a hold of and even make yourself as fine powder, and isnt overly reactive to oxygen at normal
temperatures.. |
Are you suggesting the use of such reactive metals to make
tannerite/flash powder ??
Metals that can virtually be oxidized by anything to be mixed with an oxidizer ??
Am I understanding you correctly ??
What makes you think you will survive the mixing stage ... Depending on the quantity ?
One can't even effectively powder those metals as they are too soft. Best you can do is use a cheese grater.
You do realize Fr as in Francium is highly radioactive !!!
"Chance favours the prepared mind"
"Fuck It !! We'll do it live !!"
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Trotsky
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I assumed that was a joke. I can't imagine trying to mix "powdered" sodium into AN...
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feacetech
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About the ammonium nitrate with reguards to using Al to sensitise it into a tannerite like impact sensitive HE
Is agriculture grade fine?
I know for the likes of urea ther is often a few additives added like formaldehyde as a hardner
Do the prilled fert grade granules have a coating (slow release etc?) that may inhibit its use for this composition?
On investigating i see alot of people using cold pack it would be safe to assume they dont have granulation aids or hardners added
The cold packs dont seem to be a nice prill (from what i have seen on the internet, im not sure i have cold packs in my country and i assuem they
would be more expenisve than fert grade AN), and look as though they have degradated and have a variable size distribution (ie broken up from the
intail prill granule)
I have seen some people mill or crush the fert grade ammonium nitrate
is this needed?
is it safe to use crushed or belnded ammonium nitrate?
is it more/less effective if crushed?
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