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franklyn
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The Right To Bear Arms ( and propellants )
" I do not agree with what you have to say ,
but I'll defend to the death your right to say it."
- Voltaire
Is certainly precursor to the first Amendment of the Bill of ( Individual ) Rights
of American Citizens unequivocally stated in the United States Constitution.
" Congress shall make N O law abridging the right of free speech "
The second Amendment , in importance is
" the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed "
The paraphrase then would be
" I do not agree with your right to bear arms ,
but I'll defend to the death your right to do so. "
<iframe sandbox width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/49F1uWp7kMo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Go ahead , make my day
http://freedomoutpost.com/2013/05/54-co-sheriffs-file-federa...
Brief of Complaint _
http://cdn.freedomoutpost.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/54-...
<iframe sandbox width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/pdQnTPdIn9I" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
http://now.msn.com/utah-sheriffs-association-will-not-back-d...
http://news.washeriff.net/open-letter-to-president-barack-ob...
Download here _
www.utahsheriffs.org/USA-Home_files/2nd Amendment Letter.pdf
The CANADIAN EXPERIENCE
<iframe sandbox width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/03XEUPfD0qM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
The BRITISH EXPERIENCE
<iframe sandbox width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/xTFs6Lbq1Is" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
When will they ever learn
http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?play=1&video=3000137851
" the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed " was
not written in legal language for lawyers. It is in plain language so that anyone ,
even the stupid , can understand it. Despite the use of language which is clear
to sentient beings , of which I am one , there remains a subset of hominids
for which this invites " debate ". There is nothing to debate , it is self evident
as a sign stating " wet paint " or " wet cement " , often seen with an adjacent
hand print or foot print affirming the cognitive impairment of those who dismiss
it's truth. One can paraphrase in simile by asking , what part of ' wet ' can't
they understand ?
http://constitution.findlaw.com/amendment2/amendment.html
You no doubt are aware the assertion that 90 % of Americans support and
agree Obama's progressive agenda to end gun violence , " is for the benefit
of all , and for the public good ". Television media jargon for wording of poll
questions to elicit agreement in support of a policy is known as “ push polling ”
a technique used by professional magicians. It is propaganda worthy of Goebbels.
Persecution of " the gun culture " constitutes a sanctioned hate crime , targeting
people because of their way of life and for exercising personal choice , in contempt
of their right of privacy. ( Statistically... 9 out of 10 participants in gang rape ,
enjoy it. ) Just because a majority gets satisfaction from doing something
that is wrong , doesn't make it right. Before the civil rights movement , 90 %
of people polled nationwide supported school segregation. Had that consensus
prevailed , this president who flagrantly violates his oath of office - to uphold
the Constitution , would not be today. His schooling did little for him given his
crass disdain and aberrant disregard of basic rights. " I pledge allegiance to the
Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands,"
A Republic is a representative form of government that is ruled according to
a Constitution , that assures the rights of individual's are protected by limitations
to the power of authorities to act on behalf of the majority. If this were not so
there would today be a banker hanging from every street lamp on Wall street.
You know it's true. The Bill of Rights of the American Constitution is for the
protection of individuals from Mob Rule. Duly fulfilled by a Senate vilified by
Obama as having " willfully lied " for not having legitimized prejudicial targeting
of people , when those who despise you for what you do , crusade to stop you.
This is Jim Crow by another name.
www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=24023#pid2815...
The self importance of what has sardonically become the imperial presidency
was starkly punctuated by former Secretary of State Henry Kisinger in 1975
when paraphrasing the Armed Forces slogan
" The difficult we do immediately, the impossible takes a little longer."
he quipped
" The illegal we can do immediately , the unconstitutional will take a little longer."
President Richard Nixon resigned in disgrace that same year. Other Presidents
subsequently were luckier , they retained plausible deniability of their misdeeds.
A pernicious malignant cultural shift exists to entrench authoritarian overseers of
everything that one can do , subject to arbitrary disapproval. This is the primary
reason for having a ' right ' to privacy. It is very narrowly taken to mean what
goes on behind closed doors but it also extends to that which you may do
publicly shall not be challenged by law. The right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of
happiness is the foundation for the second amendment as all of the Bill of Rights.
We are not happy to be forced ad nauseam to petition for what is ours by
birthright and allegiance. The public safety doctrine, is a dangerous new attempt
to control and mastermind all our lives, in the name of preventing calamity.
Those same extremists who rant about how dangerous guns are in the hands of
citizens don't care about crime or law enforcement. They hate us, the citizens.
They consider us dangerous and sinful creatures who must be controlled by them.
Antigun polemicists want to change us, they want to change our behaviour, our
way of life, our values and choices. They want to restrict our freedom because
they believe themselves to be superior and that they know what is good for all.
These gun illiterate quacks presume to say and want to dictate to the gun literate
public what they themselves know nothing about. Consider if illiterates were to
demand to tell literate people how and if they could access books to read. The
contention this present strife is about firearms is deceitful. It is about freedom ,
liberty and justice for all and the destruction of an itinerary to subjugate , restrict
and license the humanity of all individuals.
Regardless of what any law may state , sensible people recognize that what in
fact is " Illegal " is whatever a district attorney is motivated to prosecute , and
whatever can be designated " illegal " in the absence of jury nullification.
See - Jury Nullification: The "Top Secret" Constitutional Right
www.rexresearch.com/usa101/jurorbk.htm
Ultimately none of what is written matters because it's not the law that matters ,
when the choice is good or evil. Proof was submitted in the form of a pressure
cooker used to maim over 150 people in Boston. Given that , I 'll take my
chances with the terrorists , at least with them I know where I stand. They
are entirely honest and forthright about what they intend. I cannot suspect the
same of my government , whose propensity for treachery holds no bounds.
" Government is not reason , it is not eloquence , it is force. like fire it is a
dangerous servant and a fearful master ; never for a moment should it be left
to irresponsible action. " - George Washington
Irresponsible means not being accountable for your actions.
One can do evil with good law as well as with bad laws , just as one can do great
good with the worst of laws. I refer you to Raoul Wallenberg and Oskar Schindler.
If you limit yourself to choosing between evils , as you do you will always
commit evil. America is an idea , not a place , my values are in me , not
where I'm at. “ It is not the function of our government to keep the citizen from
falling into error; it is the function of the citizen to keep the government from
falling into error ”. There can be only one inexorable conclusion to egregiously
intolerable conduct of a government obtuse to the duty a disaffected public
expects of it. When one's government has gone awry - you repeal it.
http://capwiz.com/gunowners/dbq/officials
" I believe there are more instances of the abridgement of freedoms of the people
by gradual and silent encroachment of those in power than
by violent and sudden usurpations."
- James Madison
“ Liberty has never come from government. Liberty has always come from
the subjects of government. The history of liberty is a history of resistance.
The history of liberty is a history of limitations of government power, not
the increase of it.”
- Woodrow Wilson
Open the Pod bay doors, HAL
www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSIKBliboIo
- Who's sorry now
www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KYsPtuBgCQ
- continued
www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8N72t7aScY
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franklyn
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Some random gun ' nuts '
www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQbD7BrhYGY
www.youtube.com/watch?v=LR52iSsh1FM
www.youtube.com/watch?v=CebaoIDXWDQ
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Rosco Bodine
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http://gunthink.com/gun-quotes/gun-quotes-founding-fathers/
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killswitch
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Jesus Christ, the absolute last thing this place needs is people arguing about gun control. Though it looks like at this stage it's mostly just
link-bombing.
Newsflash: This is a site for amateur experimenters, not amateur historians or political scientists.
The only part of the debate that's relevant are the bullets and reloading supplies we use as OTC sources for azide, styphnate, and high-quality
hassle-free NC.
I don't support the use of lead-based explosives, given their environmental impact. Same reason I stay way from dichloromethane and chromic acid. I
know it's a pain in the ass, but DDNP is just as good as lead azide for primer. As for NC, take it like a man and make it yourself.
Mods, I suggest you rename the thread to something like "Firearm Propellant Regulations and You" before it spirals out of control.
[Edited on 1-6-2013 by killswitch]
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Pulverulescent
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[Edited on 1-6-13 by The_Davster]
"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones"
A Einstein
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franklyn
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Ah , the inevitable knee jerk , and self gratifying stroke.
The second amendment, as does the first , acknowledges the natural right of
people and so states that government cannot lawfully interfere with a natural
right. Nowwhere is it stated , this constitution ' grants ' the people the right to _ ,
it states unequivocally " the ' right ' of the people " is not open to question.
Because these are inherent rights and not rights ' allowed ' to people derived
from civil procedure , no law is permitted to retract them.
The most basic of natural rights is the right of self preservation. It is naturally
consistent if a human has the right to self defense - the right to be armed is
axiomatic. It is illogical to suppose otherwise. It is like asserting freedom of
the press , provided one does not communicate without authorization. There
could be by an act of government, for example , a two week waiting period to
express an opinion , allowing time for it to be reviewed and approved. Seems
reasonable doesn't it , to prevent ideas destructive to the general well being.
After all isn't the government now powerless to stop psychopaths from
expressing deviant ideas and insidious intentions. Does this not cry out for a
sweeping reform to protect the public welfare.
Natural sense observes that empowered citizens do not need others to look
out for their own good or to restrict them for what those others take to be
in the interest of society. No one can ever , or will do for you , better than
you can do for your own self , that is immutable. Infants notwithstanding ,
to say otherwise implies you to be in need of ' adult ' supervision.
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Pulverulescent
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That's Bollocks! 'One thing you're not, ahem, "short of"!
"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones"
A Einstein
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The_Davster
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No it is not. Look up Potassium dinitrobenzofuroxan if you want to see a good lead styphnate replacement. And for lead azide look up copper (I)
nitrotetrazolate.
Everyone else: keep this civil or I will kill this thread. Making insinuations regarding cock size is not civil.
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Pulverulescent
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[Edited on 1-6-13 by The_Davster]
"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones"
A Einstein
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Rosco Bodine
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A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity.
- Sigmund Freud
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Organikum
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The right to bear arms is in the constitution of the USA and so nobody should have the right to fuck around with it without changing the constitution,
whats possible, seen with prohibition.
Thats absolutely clear and one may hate weapons but this cannot be argued away - one may try to get the necessary mayority, but thats far out.
Now go and tell this your goverment not me or anybody here as thats the wrong tree you are barking at and you are making yourself a nuisance, nothing
more. For sure not convincing anybody, youve got a religious war here, just fuck off. Both sides.
Ridiculous is of course to present the right wing nuts from the NRA as saviours of civil rights and freedom. Thats like presenting Adolf Hitler as the
friend of the jewish people.
Of course if you show me the big donations the NRA made to the ACLU then I will repent....
regards
/ORG
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franklyn
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The libertarian credo can be summed up as - your life , your way.
That this premise can be regarded with sneering bigotry and revulsion exemplifies
how far we have deviated towards Stalinism. You can tell something is very wrong
when the only patriots tolerated are maimed soldiers. The incensed Russian people
seized back their lives after decades in a penal society. Why are there so many fools
eager to introduce mass criminality now into this country ?
" Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice;
moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue "
— Barry Goldwater
Birch socirty
www.youtube.com/embed/dg6ixwmcMcc
Undermining America
www.youtube.com/embed/R3nXvScRazg
Masters of deception CFR
www.youtube.com/embed/hSDkoKofonU
and so it is
www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=24084#pid2847...
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Organikum
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Libertarian is actually anarcho-syndicalistic you stole this thats not you.
Fuck nationalism of any color and fuck quoting as you find a quote for everything.
What about some original ideas and words?
And last not least fuck YouTube, the messias of the illiterate generation.
The russians did not free themselves, they surrendered in the cold war after being economically ruined. They want the czar back, next year Putin gets
the crown.
Travel around the world and meet people. Talk to them.
Thats the only way I see which help you out of your ignorance. Eh - you prefer to call it patriotism and else, but rest assured. It is plain
ignorance.
Good luck
you need it.
/ORG
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Pulverulescent
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Sooo! The cold, depressing embrace of censorship is reinstated!
I'm outta here permanently!!!
"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones"
A Einstein
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unionised
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Why mention Freud on a science site?
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franklyn
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Been there , done that
www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=24153#pid2833...
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Rosco Bodine
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One of the first things the Nazis did was to burn all of the books written by Freud. Perhaps that alone should be interesting, especially in the
context that Freud evidently did recognize a retard when he saw one and could then make a scientifically correct positive identification of same.
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unionised
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Quote: Originally posted by Rosco Bodine  |
One of the first things the Nazis did was to burn all of the books written by Freud. Perhaps that alone should be interesting, especially in the
context that Freud evidently did recognize a retard when he saw one and could then make a scientifically correct positive identification of same.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law
And, for whatever it's worth Freud wasn't interested in "retards". His interest was in psychoses, rather than learning difficulties.
If you want to cite someone who could scientifically assess learning you want this guy (among others)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Stern_(psychologist)
if you want a contemporary of Freud or this guy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Binet
who largely started that field
In any event, Freud has little credibility today and citing him doesn't really help take the discussion forward, at best, it's an appeal to authority
and therefore a logical fallacy.
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franklyn
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@ Rosco Bodine
characteristically _
" citing him ( ' unionized ' ) doesn't really help take the discussion forward "
references to the heading of this thread will.
Thanks for those observations.
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AndersHoveland
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This was my concern also. If they succeed at coming after guns, it will be much easier for them to come after propellants also. One thing will lead to
another, chemicals used to make those propellants will be banned too (or regulated out of existence), and then amateur chemistry will be left in a
sorry state.
It's a progression, make no mistake about it. The idea that governments should, and have the right to, ban things to keep us "safe". These are not
defective consumer products we are talking about here. A person who buys gun powder knows what they are buying, and the potential hazards that come
along with it.
[Edited on 3-6-2013 by AndersHoveland]
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amazingchemistry
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I'll disregard my personal opinions on this "issue" and just say that this thread does not belong here. As far as I know, SciMad is a place for the
scientific discussion of chemistry-related topics by amateur chemists. Let's keep it that way. You wouldn't talk about your sex life at church would
you? there is a place for everything, and SciMad is not the place for potentially inflamatory, flame-war-starting, opinionated pseudo-political
discussion. You could argue Whimsy is the right forum for this, but even there, the mods are starting to realize that this kind of content is not
really conducive to much.
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franklyn
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@ amazingchemistry
• " SciMad is a place for the scientific discussion of chemistry-related topics by
amateur chemists." — It certainly is and it remains so.
• " SciMad is not the place for potentially inflammatory, flame-war-starting,
opinionated pseudo-political discussion." — I entirely agree. Controversy
has to remain civil and remain consistent with the section heading.
Legal and Societal Issues
Regulatory and social issues affecting scientific hobbyists.
• " I'll disregard my personal opinions on this "issue"
and just say that this thread does not belong here."
The forum is not a reform school , you don't have to read and learn if you don't
care to. Just like watching television if you don't like this show no one is making
you watch it , so your initial objection is unnecessary.
________________________________________
Curious , how much commentary is devoted in this thread
to being evasive and off topic — I wonder why that is.
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unionised
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BTW, the video about the UK says that since 2006 when there was a ban on handguns the number of gun crimes has risen by 40%.
The truth is, unsurprisingly, the opposite.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-19641398
There's also a sharp drop in 1996 when restrictions were brought in after the Dunblane incident
And there's one in 1992 which coincides with this
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1992/2823/made
Sadly these improvements are set against a general rising trend but there's clear evidence that legislation in the uk works.
Incidentally, is there anything in the constitution which says the arms concerned are firearms?
And the people who say that the ban on fox hunting was a surprise hadn't been paying attention; It was part of the published Labour party manifesto.
They said they would vote on it if they were elected. They did it. The legislation was passed.
That's the point of representational democracy.
[Edited on 3-6-13 by unionised]
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watson.fawkes
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This issue
came up in the Heller decision, which is on the U.S. Supreme Court site here. Here the relevant excerpt from page 7 - 8: I've excised the scholarly apparatus.
| Quote: | Before addressing the verbs “keep” and “bear,” we interpret their object: “Arms.” The 18th-century meaning is no different from the
meaning today. The 1773 edition of Samuel Johnson’s dictionary defined “arms” as “weapons of offence, or armour of defence.” [...] Timothy
Cunningham’s important 1771 legal dictionary defined “arms” as “any thing that a man wears for his defence, or takes into his hands, or useth
in wrath to cast at or strike another.” [...]
The term was applied, then as now, to weapons that were not specifically designed for military use and were not employed in a military capacity. For
instance, Cunningham’s legal dictionary gave as an example of usage: “Servants and labourers shall use bows and arrows on Sundays, &c. and
not bear other arms.” [...] Although one founding-era thesaurus limited “arms” (as opposed to “weapons”) to “instruments of offence
generally made use of in war,” even that source stated that all firearms constituted “arms.” |
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franklyn
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@ unionized
The comment is
" we've seen a 40 % increase in firearms CRIME since the ban was introduced "
The chart referenced by the BBC clearly states " Firearms offences "
indicating firearms that were not surrendered in a timely manner after the
handgun ban and understandably as more are confiscated there are fewer
to be counted. 48 % of which are air guns and realistic fake handgun replicas.
That you take this to be equal to violent crimes commited is also unsurprising.
Show us where it says armed robbery is down 40 %.
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/5712573/UK-is-...
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1223193/Culture-violence-Gu...
" The number of people injured or killed by guns, has increased from 864 in 1998 / 99
to a provisional figure of 1,760 in 2008 / 09, an increase of 104 per cent ."
" There are now 2,034 violent crimes per 100,000 people in the U.K. By contrast,
there are 466 violent crimes per 100,000 here in America. This means that
Britain’s violent crime rate is over five times that of the U.S."
" In terms of violent crime the United Kingdom is now the most dangerous place to live
in the entire western world."
.
[Edited on 4-6-2013 by franklyn]
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