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Author: Subject: Flash Powder
scientistfromdarkness
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[*] posted on 3-10-2006 at 12:16


KO2 does not exist !!!!
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The_Davster
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[*] posted on 3-10-2006 at 20:25


Then whats the nasty stuff on my potassium:P

It exists, check any university level inorganic textbook, or google potassium superoxide.
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[*] posted on 4-10-2006 at 00:43


nasty stuff on your potassium can also be KOH or K2CO3...
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[*] posted on 4-10-2006 at 13:55


Quote:
Originally posted by scientistfromdarkness
KO2 does not exist !!!!


Well then as long as we're denying the existence of things, I say you do not exist, and therefore KO2 does exist.

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[*] posted on 4-10-2006 at 14:10


KO2 really does exist. It is called potassium superoxide, the relevant ion is O2(-) and that ion is fairly stable, when combined with large cations, such as K(+), Rb(+) and Cs(+).

For really large cations, even the ozonide ion is stabilized. This is O3(-) and compounds like CsO3 even exist.




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[*] posted on 6-10-2006 at 10:09


I will concur with what others have already said here. KO2 most certainly does exist. What I need to do is go and get my potassium lump photographed to try and find out what the deep, blood red metallic-like oxide coating is. Potassium Peroxide and Potassium Superoxide are a yellow-orange color so I believe that this deep red oxide (I think) on the surface of my potassium is some type of oxide. I just can't find any reference to any red colored potassium salt and it's driving me nuts.



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halogen
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[*] posted on 6-10-2006 at 10:50


could be a nitride.



F. de Lalande and M. Prud'homme showed that a mixture of boric oxide and sodium chloride is decomposed in a stream of dry air or oxygen at a red heat with the evolution of chlorine.
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[*] posted on 6-10-2006 at 19:41


Quote:
Originally posted by halogen
could be a nitride.


Possibly, but I wouldn't expect a potassium nitride to form as readily as the red coloring has at room temperature.




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gregxy
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[*] posted on 11-10-2006 at 12:16
Explosive power of flash powder


Has anyone ever tried to determine the power of self initiated flash powder? For example using the lead block expansion test.

This weekend I wanted to split a large piece of wood (24" dia by 24" long) so I drilled a 0.5" X 4" deep hole in the top filled it with KClO3 based flash and glued in a wood dowel with fuse. The powder split the entire block and blew the top portion into chunks. Pretty impressive. It would be interesting to compare this with a true detonating explosive.
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Chris The Great
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[*] posted on 11-10-2006 at 22:33


I read a journal on exactly that. I searched my files and found nothing, though. Basically, flashpowder could obtain the blast power of TNT and a fairly decent lead block as well, from what I remember. The author's also destroyed a house using 5kg of it. Somebody probably knows the one I'm talking about and has it.
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[*] posted on 12-10-2006 at 07:00


IIRC it's 75% of TNT in terms of LB - HOWEVER I am pretty sure that's not self initiated. It's with a #6. The USBoM did all their stuff with dets. Even Shimezu did his stuff with a detcap (I think it's about 3200mps).
Self initiated experiments are hard to find. The PGII has some stuff out but the experiments deal with sound and issues related to pyrotechnic issues.
The self initiated experiments would have to take into account if any confinment was used and therfore what and howmuch and how to control consistency of confinment. Even a paper tube could vary due to the adheastion of the end caps, etc.
let's say that you design an experiment with 50 grams that would self contain....there you could have a good chance to get a bettr grasp on what it does. But who would want to go to that length? It's not used in industry - so all the testing that has been done with quality equipment would not be available. :(
Remember the LB is of a given volume and that would effect the results when compaired to an HE that doesn't need containment. If you use the 50 gram mark that would put the volume limits of the LB to some subjective interpretation.




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[*] posted on 18-10-2006 at 11:46


Yesterday I ignited a small amount of a KNO3/S/Mg flash powder.
It burned very fast (dissapeared in a flash).

Could a mixture of (NH4)2Cr2O7 and Al or Mg be used as a flash powder (I know that ammonium dichromate has zero oxygen balance)?
How stable would the mixture be?
Also would be a good idea to include sulfur in the mixture?

Also I have heared that MnO2 is used as a catalyst in chlorate based flash powders and I know that it is true.
How much MnO2 should be added to the 70/30 KClO3/Al flash powder for maximum performance increase?




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[*] posted on 19-10-2006 at 09:03


Quote:
Originally posted by Zinc
Yesterday I ignited a small amount of a KNO3/S/Mg flash powder.
It burned very fast (dissapeared in a flash).

Could a mixture of (NH4)2Cr2O7 and Al or Mg be used as a flash powder (I know that ammonium dichromate has zero oxygen balance)?
How stable would the mixture be?
Also would be a good idea to include sulfur in the mixture?

Also I have heared that MnO2 is used as a catalyst in chlorate based flash powders and I know that it is true.
How much MnO2 should be added to the 70/30 KClO3/Al flash powder for maximum performance increase?


NH4)2Cr2O7 --> N2 + 4H2O + Cr2O3

H2O + metal --> H2 + metal oxide

Cr2O3 + metal --> Cr + metal
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[*] posted on 27-10-2006 at 11:09


How about Na2S2O8 and Al?
Also would the mixture be stable enough to use and is it a good idea to include sulfur in the mixture?
I would try it my self but I don't have any sodium persulfate.




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[*] posted on 27-10-2006 at 16:22


Probably...

Na2SO4 + Al works fine as-is, giving sodium vapor (the mixture is too energetic to be of much use for sodium metal; sodium sulfide or oxide would be a more viable starting point).

...Isn't potassium persulfate the only one reasonably stable? I remember something about sodium and ammonium persulfates being limited on storage.

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[*] posted on 29-10-2006 at 05:07


Today I ignited a small amount of the K2Cr2O7/Mg/S flash powder.
It burned very fast.




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[*] posted on 2-11-2006 at 12:09


Two days ago my friend ignited a small ammount of K2Cr2O7/Al/S flash powder.
It burned very fast but it was harder to ignite it than the K2Cr2O7/Mg/S flash powder.




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[*] posted on 5-11-2006 at 12:14


How about P2O5/Al?



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[*] posted on 12-11-2006 at 07:35


I have just made an amount of Ca turnings, going to powder them and try different flash compositions(dangerous, I know, but curiosity killed the cat). Any suggestions of compositions?
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Mr. Wizard
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[*] posted on 12-11-2006 at 10:02


Ca turnings eh? I had some of those years ago, donated by a helpful school teacher. They are fairly brittle, but I managed to file them into a small pile and mixed them with an equal sized pile of sulfur. I didn't have a scale in those days. The ignition test was a long wooden match and the flash burned my fingernails, leaving a white smoke cloud in the air and me running to the kitchen to cool my fingers under a faucet. It was very energetic and bright. It made a half loud crackling noise, the first time I ever got any noise from an unconfined mixture. I was lucky I only had a small amount of Ca turnings!!

Edit- The Flash from the Ca / S mixture was a RED flash. I forgot until the mention of the green after image in a reply post.

[Edited on 14-11-2006 by Mr. Wizard]
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[*] posted on 13-11-2006 at 05:30


I tested the first scraping of turnings by sprinkling some KNO3 and sulfur on top. was ignited with a piece of a blackmatch which was from a bad batch. it emerged into a large bright ball of crackles, which made me see a large green area infront of my eyes for an hour. Going to try other combinations too today. KMnO4 should be furiously violent and dangerous, but that's what small amounts and thick leather gloves were invented for;)
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[*] posted on 13-11-2006 at 07:31


what size are the turnings? Ca is very unique stuff. Are you planning on using an oxidizer? By working with a "gentler" oxidizer 1st and moving forward you may find something interesting. If a reducing agent (S) produced the above illustrated result; think what an oxidizer would do! I have a wee little voice telling me that this a resipe for a serious conflagation (but it could be fun). :P:o:P:o If I were to try it I would think of some method to stay far away (at least a couple of meters) from it even in a sub-gram level. I know that I am preaching to the choir on that score; the reason I ask what size the turnings are is that if they can be made small enough, you would have more alternatives as to usage. HOWEVER if they are reduced in size the sensitivity would increase enormously. The Ca - flash seems like an Armstrong's mixture best made with a whetting process via a clean solvant......IF the size of the Ca is small.
But in most quantities of turning there are SOME powder that is tiny...enough perhaps to sensitize a somewhat tame mix of larger turnings and reducing agent / fuel / oxidizer.

[Edited on 13-11-2006 by quicksilver]




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[*] posted on 13-11-2006 at 07:57


the turnings are about 2x1mm flakes, made by drilling into it with a specific type of wood drill bit with low speed. They are brittle enough to be ground in a mortar+pestle but I've yet to do that. They are stored under gasoline, because the default oil the Ca comes in is too thick to get nicely off the flakes.
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[*] posted on 13-11-2006 at 08:41


Yesterday me and my friend ignited a small amount of KBrO3/Al/S flash powder.
It burned slower than the KClO3/Al/S flash powder probably because it was not mixed in the right ratio.

Also I have read (I do not remember where) that a mixture of KBrO3 and S ignites itself after a few hours. Is that true?




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[*] posted on 13-11-2006 at 09:45


Be very careful with your Ca turnings stored in gasoline. If any water gets in there, you will have a massive fire on your hands. Gasoline and its vapors very easily ignite, and if a fire breaks out the presence of the calcium turnings in the gasoline will make using water a very big 'NO-NO'. :D



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