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Mark Gillogly
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[*] posted on 21-12-2016 at 10:08
SA-DS


I've heard a lot of talk about SA-DS but have never seen anything about the synthesis other than vague details. Other than those, no synthesis information. I know that as with all explosives you are never 100% safe and all safety precautions must be taken. That being said, does anyone know how sa-ds is prepared?:)
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[*] posted on 21-12-2016 at 10:34


Hi Mark! Welcome to SM.

I assume that SA-DS refers to silver acetylide double salt. (Chemistry has lots of acronyms, so it is often helpful to spell things out at least once, especially in a thread title)

If you haven't already, take a look in the library - Brauer's Inorganic has a section on SA-DS:
http://library.sciencemadness.org/library/index.html

It's pretty straightforward, though. The only thing that I'd add is, acetylene can be pretty dirty, especially when freshly generated from calcium carbide, so consider a gas washer or two.






[Edited on 21-12-2016 by mayko]




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[*] posted on 21-12-2016 at 11:48


First post...so welcome.

There is a tool into this forum called the search engine...it makes wonders...so use and abuse of it...read as much as you can and learn...

Other than that the subject of SANC (silver acetylide nitrato complex), SADS (silver acetylide double salt), Ag2C2.AgNO3, etc has been covered many times and the last one is even a few 20 treads before yours...but I guess you missed it because you don't know chemistry very wel ... otherwise you would know that SA into SANC and SADS is silver acetylide or Ag2C2 (Ag-C#C-Ag).


[Edited on 21-12-2016 by PHILOU Zrealone]




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[*] posted on 23-12-2016 at 10:33


Quote: Originally posted by BobD1001  
I purchased a quantity of Formaldehyde from Elemental about 6 months ago. I received it in an opaque HDPE container, and it has since been stored along other similar liquids within a storage cabinet in my semi-temp controlled garage. The minimum temperature this cabinet will see in the winter is approximately 55* F. Upon taking inventory today, I noticed a thick layer of white residue on the bottom of the bottle. At first I thought the bottle was losing its integrity and becoming porous, but I quickly realized that it was in fact a white solid at the bottom of the container. A quick search reveals that this is most likely Paraformaldehyde forming due to the colder temperatures. My question is, upon warmer temperatures will this redissolve to reform the formaldehyde solution, or will it require more elevated temperatures. Here is a link to a picture of the bottle and its bottom layer. Link


I had the same problem. White solid at the bottom on the container of formaldehyde. it's paraformaldehyde. But my question is: to remove it, do we just have to filter it and you have in the filtrate formaldehyde? or is the formaldehyde now useless and/or too contaminated. thanks.
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[*] posted on 23-12-2016 at 14:12


The formaldehyde solution is fine, though slightly less concentrated than before (since some of the formaldehyde has polymerised, and is no longer dissolved). You could filter off the paraform, in which case I would recommend that you keep it, since it is a valuable reactant. You can also heat it in water (in a fumehood), which causes it to depolymerize and turn into formaldehyde again.
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[*] posted on 5-1-2017 at 19:11


Could Tetrakis(hydroxymethyl) silane be made by bubbling silane (SiH4) into a formaldehyde solution?
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[*] posted on 6-1-2017 at 07:52


Quote: Originally posted by Tin man  
Could Tetrakis(hydroxymethyl) silane be made by bubbling silane (SiH4) into a formaldehyde solution?

I would say no because SiH4 must be a strong reducer and so CH2=O will more likely be reduced to CH3-OH or CH4 with possible formation of Si(-O-CH3)x(H)4-x or SiO2 (= Si(OH)4).




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[*] posted on 6-1-2017 at 15:17


But if it was that strong, wouldn't it reduce water?
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[*] posted on 7-1-2017 at 05:46


Quote: Originally posted by Tin man  
But if it was that strong, wouldn't it reduce water?

Doesn't it?

It reacts with O2 from air and water catalyses the autocombustion (pyrophoricity).

SiH4 is different from CH4 because Si is less electronegative than C but also because Si is less electronegative than H while C is more electronegative than H.
C > H > Si
This means that SiH4 is a source of H(-) and that the Si inthere has a formal charge d4(+) while C has a formal charge d4(-) into CH4.

SiH4(g) + 2 O2(g) --> SiO2(s) + 2 H2O(g)

SiH4(g) + O2(g) --> SiO2(s) + 2 H2(g)

SiH4(g) + O2(g) --> SiH2O(s) + H2O(g)

SiH4(g) + 1/2 O2(g) --> SiH2O(s) + H2(g)

SiH2O(s) + O2(g) --> SiO2(s) + H2O(g)

and

SiH4(g) + H2O(l) --> SiH2O(s) + 2 H2(g)

SiH2O(s) + H2O(l) --> SiO2(s) + 2 H2(g)

SiH4(g) + 2 H2O(l) --> SiO2(s) + 4 H2(g)




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[*] posted on 7-1-2017 at 07:38


The only reason I think it doesn't react with water is that I have have seen several YouTube videos where magnesium silicide is added to 10% (aq) HCl and and lots of tiny silane bubbles form. They are obviously still silane when they reach the serface because they still spit fire when they hit the air.
Please let me know if I overlooked anything. Thanks!
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[*] posted on 7-1-2017 at 12:13


Quote: Originally posted by Tin man  
The only reason I think it doesn't react with water is that I have have seen several YouTube videos where magnesium silicide is added to 10% (aq) HCl and and lots of tiny silane bubbles form. They are obviously still silane when they reach the serface because they still spit fire when they hit the air.
Please let me know if I overlooked anything. Thanks!

Maybe it reacts not efficiently and you end up with H2 and SiH4 that enflames spontaneously because of the later...




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[*] posted on 11-1-2017 at 22:20
Dual purpose via a DIAL?!


The US is planning to replace the old baseball fragmentation grenade with a dual purpose, electronicaly fused device.

Supposedly, this new grenade will select between concussion (offensive grenade) and fragmentation (defensive grenade) by merely turning a selector ring. No removeable fragmentation sleeve, all the components stay with the device regardless of mode.

Anyone got a clue how this change in function is achieved?

I can hazard a guess at a scenario where the point(s) of initiation is oriented to PROPEL the pre shaped fragments for the defensive grenade setting, and changed into an orientation such as to SHATTER the fragments into a fine dust, too small for to be a missile hazard beyond the concussion's lethal radius when set as an offensive grenade- Perhaps even behaving more like a DIME device inside the concussion's radius than as a traditional concussion grenade?

http://kitup.military.com/2016/09/u-s-army-working-dual-miss...

But found no hard information on mechanism during a quick google search.

The two devices used back in Vietnam era were very easy to tell apart, even by touch and in the dark- One was more or less spheroidal, the other a straight walled cylinder.

When using the exact same device for both purposes, possibly in the dark and certainly while highly stressed? What could go wrong.



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[*] posted on 12-1-2017 at 09:19


Damn Bert, good question!

I would think if the concussion mode shocked the metal into dust, then it would not be thick enough to due damage during the fragmentation mode. Yes, those letters better have some tritium in them to glow in the dark! good point.

Maybe some complex metallurgy?? Yes I was thinking of the DIME also... but how would that help...

Bert, now I am unsettled until I can figure this out!.
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[*] posted on 12-1-2017 at 11:04


My brain keeps thinking there's some sort of wire mesh setup that is rotated to be closed around the explosive charge, kind of like watching a shutter close, but I'm not sure how realistic that is given the electronic nature of the fusing and the claim I'd previously read about this that the explosive train is designed in a way to make it nonfunctional until rotated into position.....


Tritium is expensive, specially doped glow in the dark polymer is cheap.

That aside I think they solved that specific design challenge by adding "braille bumps" on the selector setting. But I can't recall where I read that.




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[*] posted on 12-1-2017 at 12:26


Does ditetrazolecarbazide exist ?
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[*] posted on 12-1-2017 at 15:23


Quote: Originally posted by DubaiAmateurRocketry  
Does ditetrazolecarbazide exist ?

Should exist since amino-tetrazole exist and hydrazino-tetrazole aswel.
So in principle simply allowing phosgen or dimethyl carbonate to react with HT should lead to di-tetrazole-carbazide...
HN4C-NH-NH-CO-NH-NH-CN4H

Via
2 HN4C-NH-NH2 + Cl2C=O --> HN4C-NH-NH-CO-NH-NH-CN4H + 2 HCl
or
2 HN4C-NH-NH2 + (CH3O)2C=O --> HN4C-NH-NH-CO-NH-NH-CN4H + 2 CH3-OH

[Edited on 13-1-2017 by PHILOU Zrealone]




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[*] posted on 12-1-2017 at 21:11


Just wondering if anyone has had attempted and success with this old preparation of nitroguanidine:http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=8911



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[*] posted on 13-1-2017 at 05:05


Quote: Originally posted by NeonPulse  
Just wondering if anyone has had attempted and success with this old preparation of nitroguanidine:http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=8911

Axt into that tread and Engager into its famous tetrazole pdf paper.




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[*] posted on 24-1-2017 at 06:39


Short question: How is compatability between ETN + KMnO4 ? ( Thanks, Philou... :cool: )



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[*] posted on 24-1-2017 at 07:54


Quote: Originally posted by Laboratory of Liptakov  
Short question: How is compatability between ETN + KMnO4 ? ( Thanks, Philou... :cool: )

De nada L.o.L.,

If the ETN is fully nitrated, wel neutralized and recrystallized (thus no traces of E3N, E2N, E1N and E(*)); it should be as stable as plain ETN (shock, friction, impact), but maybe just a little less vs temperature...KMnO4 and MnO2 are combustion catalyst.

You want to make purple explosive? Jocker vs Batman ;):P:):D
Or maybe in memoriam Prince - The love symbol - Purple Rain.

(*)
Erythritol is directly related to propan-triol (aka glycerol/glycerine) because it is butan-tetrol...and glycerine + KMnO4 is unstorable because of runnaway reaction involving oxydation of the OH groups, selfheating and spontaneous fire.
The organic acid produced by the oxydation provides H(+) for further faster oxydation...


[Edited on 24-1-2017 by PHILOU Zrealone]




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[*] posted on 24-1-2017 at 08:18


Quote: Originally posted by Bert  
The US is planning to replace the old baseball fragmentation grenade with a dual purpose, electronicaly fused device.

Supposedly, this new grenade will select between concussion (offensive grenade) and fragmentation (defensive grenade) by merely turning a selector ring. No removeable fragmentation sleeve, all the components stay with the device regardless of mode.

Anyone got a clue how this change in function is achieved?

I can hazard a guess at a scenario where the point(s) of initiation is oriented to PROPEL the pre shaped fragments for the defensive grenade setting, and changed into an orientation such as to SHATTER the fragments into a fine dust, too small for to be a missile hazard beyond the concussion's lethal radius when set as an offensive grenade- Perhaps even behaving more like a DIME device inside the concussion's radius than as a traditional concussion grenade?

http://kitup.military.com/2016/09/u-s-army-working-dual-miss...

But found no hard information on mechanism during a quick google search.

The two devices used back in Vietnam era were very easy to tell apart, even by touch and in the dark- One was more or less spheroidal, the other a straight walled cylinder.

When using the exact same device for both purposes, possibly in the dark and certainly while highly stressed? What could go wrong.





Could it be that the thing has a very small low explosive charge(even just like air-bag composition in cars) as well as the large one which does the work, and the concussion setting sets off the small charge first, blowing the larger charge out of the fragmentation casing?



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[*] posted on 24-1-2017 at 08:27


Quote: Originally posted by Maroboduus  
Quote: Originally posted by Bert  
The US is planning to replace the old baseball fragmentation grenade with a dual purpose, electronicaly fused device.

Supposedly, this new grenade will select between concussion (offensive grenade) and fragmentation (defensive grenade) by merely turning a selector ring. No removeable fragmentation sleeve, all the components stay with the device regardless of mode.

Anyone got a clue how this change in function is achieved?

I can hazard a guess at a scenario where the point(s) of initiation is oriented to PROPEL the pre shaped fragments for the defensive grenade setting, and changed into an orientation such as to SHATTER the fragments into a fine dust, too small for to be a missile hazard beyond the concussion's lethal radius when set as an offensive grenade- Perhaps even behaving more like a DIME device inside the concussion's radius than as a traditional concussion grenade?

http://kitup.military.com/2016/09/u-s-army-working-dual-miss...

But found no hard information on mechanism during a quick google search.

The two devices used back in Vietnam era were very easy to tell apart, even by touch and in the dark- One was more or less spheroidal, the other a straight walled cylinder.

When using the exact same device for both purposes, possibly in the dark and certainly while highly stressed? What could go wrong.





Could it be that the thing has a very small low explosive charge(even just like air-bag composition in cars) as well as the large one which does the work, and the concussion setting sets off the small charge first, blowing the larger charge out of the fragmentation casing?





This was my first thought. You might have issues with the direction of the concussion charge as its being ejected from the casing--would that be an issue?
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[*] posted on 24-1-2017 at 10:09
purple rain


Quote: Originally posted by PHILOU Zrealone  
Quote: Originally posted by Laboratory of Liptakov  
Short question: How is compatability between ETN + KMnO4 ? ( Thanks, Philou... :cool: )

De nada L.o.L.,

If the ETN is fully nitrated, wel neutralized and recrystallized (thus no traces of E3N, E2N, E1N and E(*)); it should be as stable as plain ETN (shock, friction, impact), but maybe just a little less vs temperature...KMnO4 and MnO2 are combustion catalyst.


You want to make purple explosive? Jocker vs Batman ;):P:):D
Or maybe in memoriam Prince - The love symbol - Purple Rain.


Huhaha...thanks,
My reason is not specially detonatable Purple Rain from Prince (One from best song of World), but this mix show on 100% deflagration - detonation transfer. Basic ratios are 75 ETN + 12,5 KMnO4 + 12,5 Alu bright color type. Working it even with Bickford fuse type in cavity 6 mm. At 3 segments with different density. Maybe time show on stability during a few months. ETN is from 2 x recrystal procedure. Still more, thanks..........:cool:




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[*] posted on 24-1-2017 at 14:40


Quote: Originally posted by Laboratory of Liptakov  
Quote: Originally posted by PHILOU Zrealone  
Quote: Originally posted by Laboratory of Liptakov  
Short question: How is compatability between ETN + KMnO4 ? ( Thanks, Philou... :cool: )

De nada L.o.L.,

If the ETN is fully nitrated, wel neutralized and recrystallized (thus no traces of E3N, E2N, E1N and E(*)); it should be as stable as plain ETN (shock, friction, impact), but maybe just a little less vs temperature...KMnO4 and MnO2 are combustion catalyst.


You want to make purple explosive? Jocker vs Batman ;):P:):D
Or maybe in memoriam Prince - The love symbol - Purple Rain.


Huhaha...thanks,
My reason is not specially detonatable Purple Rain from Prince (One from best song of World), but this mix show on 100% deflagration - detonation transfer. Basic ratios are 75 ETN + 12,5 KMnO4 + 12,5 Alu bright color type. Working it even with Bickford fuse type in cavity 6 mm. At 3 segments with different density. Maybe time show on stability during a few months. ETN is from 2 x recrystal procedure. Still more, thanks..........:cool:

Ingenious.
A flash powder Al + KMnO4
+
Al/ETN D2D explosive
+
ETN a high detonating explosive
:o
I'm more than eager to see your study of it and stability.
No moisture, and good quality Al powder --> no risk.




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[*] posted on 24-1-2017 at 15:25


Quote: Originally posted by Loptr  
Quote: Originally posted by Maroboduus  
Quote: Originally posted by Bert  
The US is planning to replace the old baseball fragmentation grenade with a dual purpose, electronicaly fused device.

Supposedly, this new grenade will select between concussion (offensive grenade) and fragmentation (defensive grenade) by merely turning a selector ring. No removeable fragmentation sleeve, all the components stay with the device regardless of mode.

Anyone got a clue how this change in function is achieved?

I can hazard a guess at a scenario where the point(s) of initiation is oriented to PROPEL the pre shaped fragments for the defensive grenade setting, and changed into an orientation such as to SHATTER the fragments into a fine dust, too small for to be a missile hazard beyond the concussion's lethal radius when set as an offensive grenade- Perhaps even behaving more like a DIME device inside the concussion's radius than as a traditional concussion grenade?

http://kitup.military.com/2016/09/u-s-army-working-dual-miss...

But found no hard information on mechanism during a quick google search.

The two devices used back in Vietnam era were very easy to tell apart, even by touch and in the dark- One was more or less spheroidal, the other a straight walled cylinder.

When using the exact same device for both purposes, possibly in the dark and certainly while highly stressed? What could go wrong.





Could it be that the thing has a very small low explosive charge(even just like air-bag composition in cars) as well as the large one which does the work, and the concussion setting sets off the small charge first, blowing the larger charge out of the fragmentation casing?





This was my first thought. You might have issues with the direction of the concussion charge as its being ejected from the casing--would that be an issue?


I don't think so if the ejection is at a relatively low speed (with an appropriate delay on the main charge of course)
Didn't they have land mines that did something like that back in the US/Vietnam war? Called them something like 'jump ups' ?

I'm not big on blowin' stuff up, so I know little about what does or doesn't work in a case like this. Just seemed like it might be a good guess.
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