Sciencemadness Discussion Board
Not logged in [Login ]
Go To Bottom

Printable Version  
 Pages:  1  
Author: Subject: question about ethanol synthesis
sanity gone
Harmless
*




Posts: 38
Registered: 25-4-2004
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 8-11-2004 at 22:22
question about ethanol synthesis


Not for drinking btw just want some pure ethanol in my stockroom.

CaC2+H2O-->ethyne

C---C + HCL (in excess) -> chloroethane

Chloroethane + NaOH --> ethanol + NaCl

I have to work out the ratios of the reactions, but I was wondering if this was fesiable? Also, I would purify the ethanol by means of distilation.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Saerynide
National Hazard
****




Posts: 954
Registered: 17-11-2003
Location: The Void
Member Is Offline

Mood: Ionic

[*] posted on 9-11-2004 at 02:05


Why not ferment sugar? I wouldnt want to drink something that once had HCl and NaOH mixed into it :P You also might risk blowing yourself up with the acetylene



"Microsoft reserves the right at all times to monitor communications on the Service and disclose any information Microsoft deems necessary to... satisfy any applicable law, regulation or legal process"
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Marvin
National Hazard
****




Posts: 995
Registered: 13-10-2002
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 9-11-2004 at 03:02


Ethyne has a triple bond, so when you add 1 mol of HCl to 1 mol of ethyne you get 1 mol of chloroethene, not chloroethane. Furthur reaction then produces dichloroethane.

If you want ethanol this route, you need to start from ethene.

You have to decide what you want the ethanol for and how pure it needs to be (mainly from methanol and water).

For sheer ease of production I would also recommend fermentation if it needs to be substantially methanol free.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Dilaudid
Harmless
*




Posts: 2
Registered: 9-11-2004
Location: Cambridge,Ontario
Member Is Offline

Mood: Gloomy

[*] posted on 9-11-2004 at 10:46
Ethanol Synthesis


Try using a Pallidium catalyst with a ketone(or diol) to get an alcohol
View user's profile View All Posts By User
heksogen
Harmless
*




Posts: 25
Registered: 20-3-2004
Location: Poland
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 5-6-2005 at 01:05


Hi there,
I haven't post there for year or more,
Sorry for digging up an old thread, but I've got a question on making synthetic ethanol.
Is it possible in a home - laboratory to synthesise C2H5OH from ethylene and H2O steam ?

C2H4 + H2O --catalyst---> C2H5OH

I've heard about H3PO4 beeing catalyst but it had to be mistake, H3PO4 helps to destroy ethanol to ethene.
It should be an electrophilic catalyst...
Has anyone any info on this ????
I think that the reaction is quite interesting, maybe administrators would make a new thread and stick my post to it :D ...

And finally what about making ethylene from plastic parts, bootles, and others stuff made of PE (poliethylene) or LDPE/HDPE :D:D:D???

[Edited on 5-6-2005 by heksogen]

[Edited on 5-6-2005 by heksogen]
View user's profile View All Posts By User
unionised
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 5098
Registered: 1-11-2003
Location: UK
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 7-6-2005 at 12:47


Any catalyst that works for a reaction in one direction will also work for the reverse reaction. H3PO4 would work, but it's easier to make beer and distill it.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
MadHatter
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1329
Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Maine
Member Is Offline

Mood: Enjoying retirement

[*] posted on 7-6-2005 at 13:34
Distill


Unionised, I couldn't agree more with your last post. Distillation works great ! Why bother
with any synthetic methods when Nature's little chemists will do it for you !




From opening of NCIS New Orleans - It goes a BOOM ! BOOM ! BOOM ! MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHA !
View user's profile View All Posts By User
heksogen
Harmless
*




Posts: 25
Registered: 20-3-2004
Location: Poland
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 8-6-2005 at 06:00


LOL, I don't want to drink this :D :D :D
I just think of making technical grade alkohol
My neighbour runs an environment firm which take taxes from firms which pollute the air or water with toxic or harmfull materials. Now he also take different kinds of plastics - he take money for waste disposal, nowadays he take 10tons of poliethylene a month but he can take even several times more. He earns 15groszy (5 american cents or 4euro-cents) for every kilogram of PE and he doesn't know what to do with theese plastics - they just lie in magazine. I talked with him and suggested starting making ethanol - firstly test it in lab-scale, then run little production, end if that would give money , build a factory :o:cool::cool::D
I don't know if my idea is good but it sounds nice... I've heard about factory making ethanol from ethylene from petroleum and using ethanol as an additive to petrol...
View user's profile View All Posts By User
docberto
Harmless
*




Posts: 20
Registered: 29-5-2005
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 8-6-2005 at 19:57


I don't think polyethylene can be depolymerized to ethylene.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
a123x
Hazard to Self
**




Posts: 87
Registered: 12-1-2003
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 8-6-2005 at 21:30


An idea I had for making rather pure ethanol was to simply take ethyl acetate and react it with NaOH. This will give sodium acetate and pretty much anhydrous ethanol if you start with anhydrous ethyl acetate.

Oh, and the distill the ethanol from the sodium acetate. This should be pretty obvious but I'm editting my post to put it in anyway.

[Edited on 9-6-2005 by a123x]
View user's profile View All Posts By User
sparkgap
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1234
Registered: 16-1-2005
Location: not where you think
Member Is Offline

Mood: chaotropic

[*] posted on 8-6-2005 at 21:51


docberto: yes it can, steam can do it, see Rosco and neutrino's posts here, near the end of the thread.

sparky (~_~)

[Edited on 9-6-2005 by sparkgap]




"What's UTFSE? I keep hearing about it, but I can't be arsed to search for the answer..."
View user's profile View All Posts By User
unionised
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 5098
Registered: 1-11-2003
Location: UK
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 9-6-2005 at 10:33


"An idea I had for making rather pure ethanol was to simply take ethyl acetate and react it with NaOH. This will give sodium acetate and pretty much anhydrous ethanol if you start with anhydrous ethyl acetate"

Oh no it won't. You will get the Claisen condensation of the ester.
If you adfd lots of water you will get alcohol and you can clean that up by distilation.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
hAzzBEEn
Harmless
*




Posts: 14
Registered: 20-7-2005
Member Is Offline

Mood: FAIR

[*] posted on 26-7-2005 at 11:47


Polyethylene doesn't depolymerize. Quote from Praktikum Polymer Science/Polymerisationstechnik: Thermal degradation of polymers (SS 2002)
Quote:
Polymers that don´t depolymerize, like polyethylene, generally decompose by thermal stress...

If one want's lab grade 99% ethanol: fermentation, distillation to 96%, and molecular sieve for >99%.




--hAzzBEEn--
View user's profile View All Posts By User
neutrino
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1583
Registered: 20-8-2004
Location: USA
Member Is Offline

Mood: oscillating

[*] posted on 26-7-2005 at 13:53


Digging around a little, I found that it actually does—but not how we thought. From the Wikipedia, we have this:
Quote:
Polyethylene usually degrades by random scission - that is by a random breakage of the linkages (bonds) that hold the atoms of the polymer together. When this polymer is heated above 450 Celsius it becomes a complex mixture of molecules of various sizes which resemble gasoline.


Back to the drawing board, I guess.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Fleaker
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1251
Registered: 19-6-2005
Member Is Offline

Mood: nucleophilic

[*] posted on 28-7-2005 at 17:37


I'd just ferment. A mixture of 2L molasses, 450g brown sugar, 8L warm water and 5g yeast fermented for 20 days (with a trap to prevent oxygen from getting in) Distill it 3 times. Then go with the sieve or even use sodium wire (empty tomato paste can with a hole punched in bottom works well when making Na wire) to dry. Or you could just go buy a bottle of the cheapest vodka you can find...
View user's profile View All Posts By User
neutrino
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1583
Registered: 20-8-2004
Location: USA
Member Is Offline

Mood: oscillating

[*] posted on 28-7-2005 at 19:57


And then there are those of us who know better than to drink strong bases...
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Fleaker
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1251
Registered: 19-6-2005
Member Is Offline

Mood: nucleophilic

[*] posted on 28-7-2005 at 21:52


Quote:
Originally posted by sanity gone
Not for drinking btw just want some pure ethanol in my stockroom.



I don't think he wanted to drink it.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
neutrino
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1583
Registered: 20-8-2004
Location: USA
Member Is Offline

Mood: oscillating

[*] posted on 29-7-2005 at 06:26


I was referring to your sodium wire idea.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
praseodym
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 137
Registered: 25-7-2005
Location: Schwarzschild Radius
Member Is Offline

Mood: crazy

[*] posted on 30-7-2005 at 03:39


question about ethanol synthesis.....

Are you limited to the substances you can use for making ethanol?? Because the process you have stated is a very tedious way of getting ethanol. Why not try other simpler methods such as fermentation or reduction of acetaldehyde or perhaps hydration of ethene??
View user's profile View All Posts By User This user has MSN Messenger
Nerro
National Hazard
****




Posts: 596
Registered: 29-9-2004
Location: Netherlands
Member Is Offline

Mood: Whatever...

[*] posted on 30-7-2005 at 04:21


On a slightly off topic note,

Stores sell trichloroethene as a degreaser. Do you think that might be converted to tetrachloroethane with HCl? And if that's possible whether or not that could be converted to ethanetetra-ol? I don't think that would be stable so what would that then dehydrate into? ethane-dial? (dunno english nomenclature too well ;) I mean H(OC)-(CO)H)




#261501 +(11351)- [X]

the \"bishop\" came to our church today
he was a fucken impostor
never once moved diagonally

courtesy of bash
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Madandcrazy
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 117
Registered: 11-5-2005
Member Is Offline

Mood: annoyed

[*] posted on 30-7-2005 at 07:32


Nifty idea get ethanol from degreasers ;).

A easy way would give ethanol from ethylcarbonate.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
FloridaAlchemist
Hazard to Self
**




Posts: 76
Registered: 8-6-2003
Location: USA
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 31-7-2005 at 06:56
Ethyl Acetate


If one could get ethanol from ethyl acetate then maybe we could convert the solvent grade denatured ethyl alcohol to ethyl acetate. Then convert that back to ethyl alcohol without most of the denaturants.;)
View user's profile View All Posts By User
sparkgap
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1234
Registered: 16-1-2005
Location: not where you think
Member Is Offline

Mood: chaotropic

[*] posted on 31-7-2005 at 17:41


"If one could get ethanol from ethyl acetate..."

Saponification anyone?

sparky (^_^)




"What's UTFSE? I keep hearing about it, but I can't be arsed to search for the answer..."
View user's profile View All Posts By User
praseodym
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 137
Registered: 25-7-2005
Location: Schwarzschild Radius
Member Is Offline

Mood: crazy

[*] posted on 31-7-2005 at 23:09


But i don't understand why do you have to go to such lengths just to get ethanol?? Why can't simpler methods be used instead?? If it is just to get ethanol, i recommend using the easier, more 'conventional' methods. Unless...unless you are limited to certain chemicals given. If it is for fun, then saponification will then be quite a good idea.
View user's profile View All Posts By User This user has MSN Messenger
sparkgap
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1234
Registered: 16-1-2005
Location: not where you think
Member Is Offline

Mood: chaotropic

[*] posted on 1-8-2005 at 01:44


Exactly what "simpler methods" or "easier, more 'conventional' methods" did you have in mind? ;)

Not everyone has yeast. Also, not everyone has a good source of legal alcohol (denatured and/or otherwise). Maybe it is just for the fun of it. What's wrong with seeking more ways to skin a cat? That's how (mad) science progresses! ;)

The easiest route for one is not necessarily the best for the other. Sometimes the more tortuous route may be more appropriate with his/her given(s). Keep that in mind.

sparky (~_~)

P.S. Oh, just look at that nice row of stars... sweet. :D Post # 500!




"What's UTFSE? I keep hearing about it, but I can't be arsed to search for the answer..."
View user's profile View All Posts By User
 Pages:  1  

  Go To Top