Turner
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Sodium Bisulfite in TNT synth.
What is the purpose of sodium bisulfite in the making of TNT? pure sulfuric acid with 15% SO3 is added to hot DNT and is used in the final nitration
of DNT.
Where would you find sodium bisulfite?
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Ral123
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Separating the isomers by exploiting different solubilities. But I have no idea why the do that, unless it's something with the melting point and
stability.
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TheChemiKid
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Sodium Bisulfite can easily be bought online.
It can also be made by adding an excess sulfur dioxide to aqueous sodium hydroxide.
NaOH + SO2 => NaHSO3
When the police come
\( * O * )/ ̿̿ ̿̿ ̿'̿'̵͇̿̿з=༼ ▀̿̿Ĺ̯̿̿▀̿ ̿ ༽
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Metacelsus
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SO3 is not sodium bisulfite, but sulfur trioxide.
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Turner
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Oh, I think it is implying the sodium bisulfite salt with "SO3."
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Metacelsus
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Nope. What they mean is oleum.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oleum
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Turner
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Ok I see. So sodium bisulfite can be used to produce Oleum in the reaction mixture, which dehydrates the Nitric Acid??. I thought sulfuric acid
already does this? If you need Oleum, couldn't you just use excess sulfuric acid, anhydrous nitric acid, or a NITRATE SALT?
[Edited on 24-12-2013 by Turner]
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DubaiAmateurRocketry
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yes i agree, it can be bought very easily, why would you be worried of sodium bisulfate when you seem to have no problem with sulfuric acid or even
oleum.
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Turner
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*sulfite
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Turner
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Ok, so sodium bisulfite is used in solution of water and molten TNT to clean out the TNT (other isomers). Oleum is used to dehydrate the sulfuric acid
and nitric acid to go from DNT to TNT. Is Oleum absolutely needed in this case if I can just use excess sulfuric acid and anhydrous nitric acid??
Thanks.
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Bot0nist
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Please read the extensive TNT thread here. Oleum is helpful, but TNT can be prepared in a two to three step nitration from toluene. Temperature
control and monitering is vital to reach the third nitration state. With each successful nitro group, it gets much harder to add the next. Meaning MNT
had with rather dilute and tame nitration baths, DNT requires a bit harsher and more concentrated conditions, and TNT needs very strong mixed acids,
and elevated temps.
Please do the research. Spoonfeeding requests for energetics is frowned upon. The three step nitration of toluene used to be a common lab exercise.
The info is there. Do the legwork. EM are not to be taken lightly, as a simple mistake can be your last. I mean no offence, but your eagerness to
experiment with high explosives, paired with your inexperiance is worrisome to me. ETN for rocket engines is just one example. You need to really
read and learn basic chemistry, and read a whole lot more, and learn to research yourself. Agian, I mean no offense. Just want you to keep your
digits and eyes intact. Read the forum guidelines. They will teach you how to do proper literature searches.
[Edited on 24-12-2013 by Bot0nist]
U.T.F.S.E. and learn the joys of autodidacticism!
Don't judge each day only by the harvest you reap, but also by the seeds you sow.
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Turner
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As for the ETN rocket propellant thing, I thought it wasn't that unreasonable as I have read about other HE's like RDX and HMX be used as
propellants. I didn't know about the likelihood for DDT of ETN as it burns in a confined space under high sustained pressure of a rocket motor. Even
still when I get the chance I might try a bottle rocket or something (Ina remote area where accidental det. Wouldn't do any damage) with ETN as the
propellant. Because it is OB positive so it can oxidize the binder as a fuel, and I have found that adding a binder over comes the obstacle of it's
low flame sensitivity which would disqualify ETN as a fuel.
Ihave read that entire thread on TNT and what I saw was a Lot of speculation on different procedures. I'll keep reading more but I'll just have to
try the TNT procedure and see what happens.
[Edited on 24-12-2013 by Turner]
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DubaiAmateurRocketry
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ETN is 2J RDX is 6J
rdx is 3 times less sensitive which is why its acceptable to be used. any ways those figures are.the medium range amount of impact test. it can
explode with you not expecting it and taking your hand or life
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roXefeller
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If you look for the ETN threads, you'll probably come across the one where a det cap was being designed that exploited the thermal instability of ETN.
He intended to bypass primaries altogether and heat the ETN causing it to explode. That should give you some caution as to the situation dependence
of it. Not to mention the other life after detonation threads concerning ETN.
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