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MrHomeScientist
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What does everyone need such huge amounts of chlorate for, anyway? I see all these threads about chlorate cells (some very large scale), but almost
nothing about using the product for anything. I've only ever used it for the "screaming gummy bear" demo, and as a source of oxygen gas. I'm curious
to know what everyone's end use is.
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hyfalcon
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It's the feedstock for the go to oxidizer used in any large pyrotechnic display. You need lots, and lots of perchlorate for making stars and what
have you. Perchlorate, in pyrotechnics, is used in pounds not ounces.
This is just a starter kit: http://www.skylighter.com/mall/product-details.asp?id=2523&a...
[Edited on 10-4-2014 by hyfalcon]
[Edited on 10-4-2014 by hyfalcon]
[Edited on 10-4-2014 by hyfalcon]
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Zyklon-A
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Exactly what hyfalcon said, I use lots of chlorate and perchlorate in fireworks.
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MrHomeScientist
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Interesting, I've never worked with pyrotechnics. Thanks for the info.
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Varmint
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The danger is stopping at Chlorate.
Consider:
Chlorates are like hyperactive children, ready to go off with the greatest of ease (sensitivity), surrendering it's 3 oxygens ever too easily. In
fact, according to some studies, even spontaniously (especially when sulfur is present).
Perchlorates are like the big burly older brother, it takes significantly less to get "him" upset, but when he does, he's got 4 oxygens to do battle
with.
This makes perchlorates much safer to use, but there is one place chlorates still reign supreme: Pyrotechnic colors. Chlorates and well established
formulas tend to produce richer, more vibrant colors. There are of course the same range of colors available when using perchlorates, but they tend
to me more washed out and less vibrant.
Interestingly, the chlorate color formulas tend to be more simple, while the perchlorates tend to be more complex, this is a direct offshoot of trying
to produce richer colors with perchlorates.
DAS
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hyfalcon
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Here's something to go with at pretty good prices too.
http://www.aedenterprises.com/Titanium/CPGrade2Sheet.htm
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Fantasma4500
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i suppose varmint meant it takes significantly MORE to get 'him upset, just in case anybody didnt figure that out themselves
ive ordered home a 5V 20A (i recall i to be?) power supply and hope to get something going some day again, ill try adding some sodium dichromate
solution to it and just scrape out the KClO3 this time instead of boiling the solution, which when i get to think about it is quite counter-productive
im gonna try with glass container topped off with seemingly acryl lid, where the titanium strips leading to MMO and Ti plate will be heated then
pushed through the lid, secured with epoxy, then have a handy rock holding it down, perhaps have this thing sealed in a big plastic bag with dilute
NH4OH (yes.. that stuff is extremely handy) to catch the chlorine gasses, not sure if im gonna go with leading it through anything this time to catch
the gasses.. it can be done so easily youknow
not doing it without lid because of the fact that ClO with NH4OH creates not just chloramines but also hydrazine at one point which is just entirely
no go
about sulfur with chlorate.. i recall reading something about chinese use KClO3 Al and S in their firecrackers, im supposing the reason this is
do-able is because there is no H2SO4 within the sulfur they use, lets not mention bombay ''event'' where they used many TONNES of that mixture
you cant just mix many tonnes of that stuff with LUCK..
im thinking that if you dumped sulfur into toluene while boiling it all, then added some NH4OH (ammonia is possibilities!) and shook it around, then
poured off the liquid to be re-used for another batch it could potentially destroy all the H2SO4 stuck intercrystalline in the sulfur
perhaps ballmilling sulfur with 1-2% CaCO3?
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Zyklon-A
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My first batch of chlorate is done, yields were about 80% based on the amount of initial chloride added in the beginning. Since it was such a
small batch (~30 grams), I have not bothered with re-crystallization, but will combine it with my next batch, and re-crystallize then.
My cell operated at only 45-60*C, so I boiled it to disproportionate any potential hypochlorite. I hope to get a good PSU soon, but until then,
I'll just have to deal with bad yields, slow runs, and the need to boil it.
I have 10 lbs of 90% sulfur with 10% bentonite, which is acid free I believe. I have done several hammer tests with potassium chlorate, and it has
never gone off.
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hyfalcon
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Look, I don't know how many times I'm gonna have to repeat myself. DON'T MIX CHLORATE AND SULFUR, PERIOD!!! It's unpredictable and too much of a
risk in fireworks.
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Zyklon-A
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Talking about a .5 gram test, I expected it to detonate, I was ready. Nothing happened though. I never mix chlorates and sulfur for real
fireworks.
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Bert
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You are mixing Sulfur and Potassium chlorate? And can't get it to fire from a steel on steel impact?
Your experience is VERY unusual.
Rapopart’s Rules for critical commentary:
1. Attempt to re-express your target’s position so clearly, vividly and fairly that your target says: “Thanks, I wish I’d thought of putting it
that way.”
2. List any points of agreement (especially if they are not matters of general or widespread agreement).
3. Mention anything you have learned from your target.
4. Only then are you permitted to say so much as a word of rebuttal or criticism.
Anatol Rapoport was a Russian-born American mathematical psychologist (1911-2007).
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