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Steam
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Chemistry for profit?
I know this is probably a stupid question but is there any way one could make money selling chemicals on places like eBay?
I have been thinking about this and the only way I could see it being profitable is to either
A) purchase a "hard to get" chemical from an actual supplier in bulk, then re-sell it in smaller quantities. Ex: buying diethyl ether and selling it
on eBay.
Or
B) synthising regulated or heavily watched chemicals at home on a large scale and then sell it to ebay. Ex: making mercury chloride, or bromine?
Any thoughts?
And for any federal agents reading this, the chemicals would be packaged and shipeded to regulations! 
DISCLAIMER: The information in this post is provided for general informational purposes only and may not reflect the current law in your jurisdiction.
No information contained in this post should be construed as legal advice from the individual author, nor is it intended to be a substitute for legal
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gdflp
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This is a very hard topic. As stated in other topics, generally expensive chemicals which you could make a profit selling are expensive for a reason.
Either they are extremely toxic(e.g. Nickel Carbonyl) or illegal, or otherwise hard to make. The best way to make money would be custom synthesis,
but even then, the best you would be able to do is maybe support your chemistry hobby and be able to stock your lab. Their is no way you will be able
to make enough money to earn your living this way.
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Zyklon-A
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The key is
:Start small.
:Have lots of money.
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Steam
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I have acces to an actual business address. Would this change anything? Maybe redistribution?
DISCLAIMER: The information in this post is provided for general informational purposes only and may not reflect the current law in your jurisdiction.
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gdflp
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Maybe if major suppliers like Sigma Aldrich would actually accept your orders(highly unlikely), you could resell hard to get/synthesize chemicals.
However, there is a reason they don't sell to individuals in the first place, liability.
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Steam
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I have received orders from lab depo and other "mid-ranking" suppliers. Like I said I have an actual business/lab address.
what sort of chemicals are in demand?
[Edited on 7-4-2014 by Steam]
DISCLAIMER: The information in this post is provided for general informational purposes only and may not reflect the current law in your jurisdiction.
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GoldGuy
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I know Id be willing to buy certain things that are legal and Canada but hard to get like Iodine, concentrated H2O2, raney nickel, phosphorus, bulk
KI, ethyl acetate etc.
Also many other chemicals which are easily available but hard to purify because I don't have a distillation setup...DCM, nitromethane, potassium
nitrate, potassium carbonate, sodium metabisulfite, calcium pyruvate..... I know there many more just cant think off tops of my head but all the
normal stuff used for gold extraction and biodiesel are needed by the home chemist and we would pay a pretty penny for them.
Its simple economics. Look and see if there is a demand and investigate how much profit you could make by supplying it then do it.
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gdflp
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Depending on what they stock that could be useful. NOTE: I have access to a business address too, however, major suppliers like Sigma-Aldrich require
more than just a business address. They will investigate if the chemical requested is needed for the specific research that company is conducting,
if not and it's a small company they will reject the order. On this forum, there are many stories of orders being rejected for this reason from
Sigma, Alfa etc.
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Steam
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Yes yes, I have had that happen to me. I have a pretty good relationship with my supplier and they have never asked for any DEA license numbers or
anything. Furthermore the business which it ships to is a place which relieves chemicals on a daily basis.
For example I have the ability to order 15 Crown-5 or 4-sec-Butylphenol
I am not trying to do this for a living, but I just want to make a little spending money.
I have a lot of capital and I am just wondering if I could turn it into a semi profitable investment.
What I want to do is sell something that (isn't illegal) is hard to find for the average home chemist, and produce it for sale.
The compund would have to easy enought to synthsise that it could be made cost effictavly on the small/medium scale but hard enough that the home
chemist would be willing to pay money for it. Also it would have to be common enough for their to be demand for it.
I realize profits will be fractional, especially with shipping and reagent acquisition.
[Edited on 7-4-2014 by Steam]
DISCLAIMER: The information in this post is provided for general informational purposes only and may not reflect the current law in your jurisdiction.
No information contained in this post should be construed as legal advice from the individual author, nor is it intended to be a substitute for legal
counsel on any subject matter. No reader of this post should act or refrain from acting on the basis of any information included in, or accessible
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Bert
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I can add a few things you need to consider-
Selling & offering to ship hazardous materials in USA?. You'll need to get trained & registered with FMCSA
"No person may offer or accept a hazardous material for transportation in commerce unless that person is registered in conformance with
subpart G of Part 107 of this chapter, if applicable, and the hazardous material is properly classed, described, packaged, marked, labeled, and in
condition for shipment as required or authorized..."(49 CFR 171.2(a))
Selling any chemicals remotely of interest to DEA, BATFE, CPSC? You will need to learn the requirements for record keeping & other procedures.
Ignorance will not be accepted as an excuse.
Civil liability? Got a lawyer? Insurance?
There is a reason the larger distributors charge what they do, and choose customers as they do.
Good luck!
[Edited on 7-4-2014 by Bert]
Rapopart’s Rules for critical commentary:
1. Attempt to re-express your target’s position so clearly, vividly and fairly that your target says: “Thanks, I wish I’d thought of putting it
that way.”
2. List any points of agreement (especially if they are not matters of general or widespread agreement).
3. Mention anything you have learned from your target.
4. Only then are you permitted to say so much as a word of rebuttal or criticism.
Anatol Rapoport was a Russian-born American mathematical psychologist (1911-2007).
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Steam
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Quote: Originally posted by Bert  | I can add a few things you need to consider-
Selling & offering to ship hazardous materials in USA?. You'll need to get trained & registered with FMCSA
Selling any chemicals remotely of interest to DEA, BATFE, CPSC? You will need to learn the requirements for record keeping & other procedures.
Ignorance will not be accepted as an excuse.
Civil liability? Got a lawyer? Insurance?
There is a reason the larger distributors charge what they do, and choose customers as they do.
Good luck! |
Then how do people sell chemicals on ebay with out being sued?
[Edited on 7-4-2014 by Steam]
DISCLAIMER: The information in this post is provided for general informational purposes only and may not reflect the current law in your jurisdiction.
No information contained in this post should be construed as legal advice from the individual author, nor is it intended to be a substitute for legal
counsel on any subject matter. No reader of this post should act or refrain from acting on the basis of any information included in, or accessible
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licensed in the recipient’s state, country or other appropriate licensing jurisdiction.
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Bert
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They come and go, haven't you noticed?
Quite a few of them ARE various government entities trolling for stupid people.
Some are professionals and do things legally.
Some are unprofessional, ignorant people trying to make a buck. Some of THESE are low key and small enough that they either aren't noticed or
prioritized. Others get sent a cease & desist- Or a SWAT team.
Make your choices as you see fit. But ignorance isn't a valid excuse if you fuck the dog.
Rapopart’s Rules for critical commentary:
1. Attempt to re-express your target’s position so clearly, vividly and fairly that your target says: “Thanks, I wish I’d thought of putting it
that way.”
2. List any points of agreement (especially if they are not matters of general or widespread agreement).
3. Mention anything you have learned from your target.
4. Only then are you permitted to say so much as a word of rebuttal or criticism.
Anatol Rapoport was a Russian-born American mathematical psychologist (1911-2007).
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Steam
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Understood. But would you need to fill out forms for ALL DEA watched chemicals? Mg ribbon is on this list!
Also what if it isn't on the list or classified as hazardous?
[Edited on 7-4-2014 by Steam]
DISCLAIMER: The information in this post is provided for general informational purposes only and may not reflect the current law in your jurisdiction.
No information contained in this post should be construed as legal advice from the individual author, nor is it intended to be a substitute for legal
counsel on any subject matter. No reader of this post should act or refrain from acting on the basis of any information included in, or accessible
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aga
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If you want to make money, then you may find that simply renting the business address to people, e.g. offer a maildrop service, could make more money
than selling chemicals on ebay.
Seems that making cash out of chemistry is restricted to drugs (legal or otherwise), or being able to mass-produce a required substance, such as
fertilizer by the tonne.
If you have a bundle to invest, maybe simply buying and selling lab equipment would work for you.
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aga
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> Then how do people sell chemicals on ebay with out being sued?
Basically those people are probably taking a risk.
Maybe they'll be able to continue selling forever, maybe they'll get shut down/fined/imprisoned tomorrow.
Whether it's worth it is a matter of personal circumstances & conscience, and a not insignificant quantity of Luck.
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Bert
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| Quote: Originally posted by Steam | Understood. But would you need to fill out forms for ALL DEA watched chemicals? Mg ribbon is on this list!
Also what if it isn't on the list or classified as hazardous?
[Edited on 7-4-2014 by Steam] |
If it's not hazardous or otherwise controlled, what you do is between you, your customer and the IRS.
As far as following all US laws & regulations, you will need to study. It's more pages of information than all of known organic chemistry. And
makes less sense. I am not joking or exaggerating, those big companies have several people who do nothing but compliance.
Rapopart’s Rules for critical commentary:
1. Attempt to re-express your target’s position so clearly, vividly and fairly that your target says: “Thanks, I wish I’d thought of putting it
that way.”
2. List any points of agreement (especially if they are not matters of general or widespread agreement).
3. Mention anything you have learned from your target.
4. Only then are you permitted to say so much as a word of rebuttal or criticism.
Anatol Rapoport was a Russian-born American mathematical psychologist (1911-2007).
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Steam
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Oh boy... But if sales is just between me, the customer, and the IRS then couldn't the sale of chemicals be treated just like the sale of your
grandmas old coffee maker?
Also, being a maildrop service provider probably won't happen for the business which I use is about an hour and a half drive way.
I would be willing to go down there every so often but it is definitely not an every week thing.
DISCLAIMER: The information in this post is provided for general informational purposes only and may not reflect the current law in your jurisdiction.
No information contained in this post should be construed as legal advice from the individual author, nor is it intended to be a substitute for legal
counsel on any subject matter. No reader of this post should act or refrain from acting on the basis of any information included in, or accessible
through, this post without seeking the appropriate legal or other professional advice on the particular facts and circumstances at issue from a lawyer
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Bert
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IRS?
You are very young? Here is the deal:
You make money and are above minimum taxable income, they want a share. You go over a trigger threshold and they notice, they will spend time to look
at you. If it's money enough, they will try and take their share + penalties. Their lawyer is paid for by our taxes, your lawyer is paid for by you.
Defendant's odds are not looking good.
They have virtually no restrictions on how they go about extracting information about your activities. Or money from you. Ever wonder why eBay
requires PayPal payment linked to bank accounts or credit cards, not anonymous enevelopes of cash or postal money orders? And doesn't even ask for a
warrant before turning over EVERYTHING on you to ANY level of official request? Answer: They aren't going to be your co-defendant.
Rapopart’s Rules for critical commentary:
1. Attempt to re-express your target’s position so clearly, vividly and fairly that your target says: “Thanks, I wish I’d thought of putting it
that way.”
2. List any points of agreement (especially if they are not matters of general or widespread agreement).
3. Mention anything you have learned from your target.
4. Only then are you permitted to say so much as a word of rebuttal or criticism.
Anatol Rapoport was a Russian-born American mathematical psychologist (1911-2007).
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macckone
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Probably the biggest trouble selling to hobbyist is the cpsc.
Just ask united nuclear. Most but not all of the 'watched'
chemicals don't require extensive record keeping if sold in
small quantities. Iodine and red phosphorous have no lower limit.
For example the limit for methyl amine is 1 kg.
Of course you will need to keep records because that limit is
sale to a single person per year.
Now if the cpsc cracks down on you, then you may have to resort
to shipping to only business addresses for 'hazardous' chemicals or
requiring customers sign forms like united nuclear does.
And the point about the IRS, their trigger threshold for investigation
is $600 of deposits or transfers. If they think you owe taxes based on
a records search (yes they can search bank records including paypal) then you will get an invitation to their offices for a chat.
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BromicAcid
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Making and selling chemicals has been brought up again, and again, and again. Just search:
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=19963
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=14753
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=18004
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=13706
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=26021
This is <b>not</b> an exhaustive list.
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DubaiAmateurRocketry
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Hello, is it legal to sell chemicals you synthesized your self? For example I synthesized a flammble material but is kept in a dilute water solution
and I sell it. Is it legal?
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gdflp
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It depends on what it is. Is it on this list? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DEA_list_of_chemicals
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DubaiAmateurRocketry
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Wow so many of them are simple compounds encountered in countless reactions, but anyways, if you're replying to me, I dont have any interested in any
compound in the list.
So, if i sell anything not on the list, I will be fine?
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Chemosynthesis
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| Quote: Originally posted by DubaiAmateurRocketry | Wow so many of them are simple compounds encountered in countless reactions, but anyways, if you're replying to me, I dont have any interested in any
compound in the list.
So, if i sell anything not on the list, I will be fine? |
That list is only really valid if you're having the chemicals enter the US at any point in time. The UN has some kind of regulatory apparatus in
place as well (Chemical Weapons Convention comes to mind), but your locale may not be subject to it.
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Steam
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Then is it legal to make and have in your possession list 1 chemicals.
Ex: making Phosphorous, or Methylamine?
DISCLAIMER: The information in this post is provided for general informational purposes only and may not reflect the current law in your jurisdiction.
No information contained in this post should be construed as legal advice from the individual author, nor is it intended to be a substitute for legal
counsel on any subject matter. No reader of this post should act or refrain from acting on the basis of any information included in, or accessible
through, this post without seeking the appropriate legal or other professional advice on the particular facts and circumstances at issue from a lawyer
licensed in the recipient’s state, country or other appropriate licensing jurisdiction.
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