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copperastic
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Black powder rockets and fireworks
Hi, i've been watching videos about fireworks and black powder rockets and they use these special machines to make the clay, black powder and stuff
form layers. Could I just use a big stick to push it? Also Is there a recipe to make a black powder rocket and have something explode at the end like
make black powder stars with dextrin?
Thanks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_Z1WYaN0Wg (link with the pump thing)
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roXefeller
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This guy is all about end burner rockets and exploding fireworks (http://www.skylighter.com/). He sends out informative emails all the time.
I've seen people use rods and mallets, consistency can be a problem, but its a good starting point.
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Bert
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The tool used with a mallet to ram fuel into a black powder rocket's engine case is called a "drift". There are usually several of different lengths
used.
Yes, you CAN make your own. Look around p. 34 of this book- It tells how to make your own tooling.
Here is Thomas Kentish- The Pyrotechnist's Treasury
Rapopart’s Rules for critical commentary:
1. Attempt to re-express your target’s position so clearly, vividly and fairly that your target says: “Thanks, I wish I’d thought of putting it
that way.”
2. List any points of agreement (especially if they are not matters of general or widespread agreement).
3. Mention anything you have learned from your target.
4. Only then are you permitted to say so much as a word of rebuttal or criticism.
Anatol Rapoport was a Russian-born American mathematical psychologist (1911-2007).
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Bert
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Thread Moved
9-4-2014 at 19:45 |
Zephyr
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When I used to make pyrotechnics, I would always use this type of small card board tubing. I found that drill bits make perfect drift, they are hard, have a flat bottom and come in all lengths and
widths. The success of small bottle rockets is largely dependent on the quality of your black powder, and to achieve the desired particle size, I
would ball mill mine for 36 hours. For this size of rocket, the most reliable exhaust hole is 1/8", in which a 1/16" fuse fits in snugly. For an
explosive tip, I would seal both ends of the rocket with bentonite clay, and the would drill an identical 1/8" hole in the front end of the card board
tube. Then I would cut an identical cardboard tube in half horizontally. One end of the empty card board tube would be sealed with bentonite, this
time with no hole, and the remainder of the tube would be filled with flash powder. BE VERY CAREFUL not to compress the volatile flash powder. The
flash powder filled card board tube is attached with duct tape to the front of the black powder filled rocket, so that when the BP finishes burning,
the flash powder will ignite. The now complete rocket engine is then taped to a skewer.
Depending on the weight and the quality of the BP, the rocket will explode at about 200ft up.
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hyfalcon
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Whatever you do, DON'T start out with headings on your rockets. Get the rocket part down first and have CONSISTENTLY flying rockets BEFORE you EVER
put any headings on ANY of your rockets. Not doing so can have one come down on you or someone else before the heading goes off. Having a 50gram
flash charge go off by your head would not be fun.
Also start out with BP headings then when you are sure you have a consistent design, graduate to the more energetic headings.
[Edited on 10-4-2014 by hyfalcon]
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copperastic
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roXefeller I signed up and it didnt send me an email.
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hyfalcon
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Takes time copperastic. They aren't a large corporation. They may actually be mixing chemicals for a personal display. It's less than 3 months to
the 4th of July.
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Zyklon-A
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They send me an email every day, sometimes two.
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aga
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Start with just cardboard tubes.
Wet the tube slightly and pull a string around it about 1 cm from the end to make a nozzle.
Allow it to dry.
Clay definitely works best, but cardboard & paper are easier unless you want to invest in tooling.
Any head end should be added once you're sure the thing flies AWAY.
Mine tend to be homing devices.
Giving the propellant some Air Time seems to help - the mixture grabs water from the air or similar, and mixes itself better. Lead balls and a
rotating cylinder will probably be even better still.
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copperastic
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If by the fuse I had the hole be in a cardboard thing would it burn and the black powder fall out? Sorry if it sounds confusing because I dont know
the vocabulary for fireworks.
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hyfalcon
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There's a lot of good information on Skylighter. A BP rocket has to have the fuel grain compacted into a hard grain. If your BP is falling out then
it is WAY under-packed. When building a BP rocket, I use a dead blow hammer and whack the drift about 5-6 good blows with each increment of BP. In a
.5in rocket, you only add about 1/2 a teaspoon of BP at a time, then the 5-6 whacks then another 1/2 till I get it up to where I want it for a
bulkhead. Bulkhead gets 1/2 teaspoon of bentonite clay, then the requisite 5-6 whacks. If you just want a rocket with no heading you only have to
add a stick long enough that it will balance your rocket head and all right behind the nozzle. If you don't get enough weight in the stick it could
chase you around the yard. That's why you don't put heading on your rockets at first.
[Edited on 11-4-2014 by hyfalcon]
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copperastic
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Does the length of the rocket matter. Like could i just fold up a toilet roll and that would be my tube.
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Bert
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Rocket engine cases need to be pretty strong. Rolled from high quality virgin Kraft paper or good quality thin cardboard (file folder material is
good), not low quality recycled materials. If the paper looks grayish and you can see little flecks of crap in it, it's recycled.
Some people have used fiberglass tubeing. For sugar fuels, some have used plastic pipe (I don't recommend!). DO NOT even think about using
metal for casings!
Here is an article on tube rolling:
And here is a general fireworks rocket article
And here is the source for the above:
I think the author of these was Dan Thames, regardless, this is all workable amateur pyrotechnics information.
Rapopart’s Rules for critical commentary:
1. Attempt to re-express your target’s position so clearly, vividly and fairly that your target says: “Thanks, I wish I’d thought of putting it
that way.”
2. List any points of agreement (especially if they are not matters of general or widespread agreement).
3. Mention anything you have learned from your target.
4. Only then are you permitted to say so much as a word of rebuttal or criticism.
Anatol Rapoport was a Russian-born American mathematical psychologist (1911-2007).
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copperastic
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nitrates for blackpowder
Hi, I'm interested in making fireworks. For black powder you need a nitrate so would copper nitrate and strontium nitrate be able to be used?
Thanks
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copperastic
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Oops just noticed that this shouldve been in energetic materials.... Can someone move it?
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Texium
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I haven't yet tried, but I was wondering the same thing and was considering making some with strontium nitrate or barium nitrate. Maybe even
combinations of different nitrates?
Sorry for the open speculation. I didn't do a thorough search, but it seems like any nitrate will work in place of potassium nitrate, but with varying
levels of success.
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Fantasma4500
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i know a person who has made strontium nitrate based rocket fuel and i recall it was something around the same as blackpowder, said it had abit more
force, this would make sense if you consider its higher density.. barium nitrate would probably work aswell? it should have even higher density
just supposing this because i have 2 100g plastic bags with BaO2 and SrO2, the SrO2 fills around 160% of the BaO2
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Texium
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I take it that you'd also want to make the powders with a molar ratio equal to normal black powder, and not simply replacing the potassium nitrate
with an equivalent weight of another one, since it may be a drastically different amount of chemical despite being the same in weight. Definitely keep
that in mind.
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Zyklon-A
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I could try it today, I have barium, strontium, calcium, potassium, and sodium nitrate. It seems like barium, calcium and strontium nitrates would
work best due to they're higher oxidation-state, thus they have two nitrate- ions of every cation, as apposed to only one with the
alkali's.
[Edited on 13-4-2014 by Zyklonb]
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weeksie98
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Bear in mind the nature of the combustion of black powder when using these nitrates. Barium and strontium nitrate tend to burn more smokily, and the
smoke can be slightly toxic. Also the smoke will reek of SO2, but that shouldn't be a problem  . Incorrect molar ratios will also lead to formation of undesired sulfides, may be something simple to double check
when using 2+ cations like Ba or Sr. According to another forum, Ba(NO3)2 compositions are slightly sensitive to shock.
Good luck!
[Edited on 13-4-2014 by weeksie98]
'If organic chemistry were easy, it would be known as "biology".'
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Texium
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Quote: Originally posted by weeksie98  | Incorrect molar ratios will also lead to formation of undesired sulfides, may be something simple to double check when using 2+ cations like Ba or Sr.
[Edited on 13-4-2014 by weeksie98] |
Ah, didn't even think about that. Would that mean that half of the calculated amount of nitrate would be used for the 2+ ones?
For example, if I were to prepare black powder using barium nitrate:
10 grams of normal KNO3 black powder would contain 7.5g of KNO3, or .074mol. .074mol of Ba(NO3)2 would be
about 19.39g, but since it contains twice as many nitrate anions, I should actually use 9.69 grams, right? (Keeping the carbon at 1.5g and sulfur at
1g)
[Edited on 4-13-2014 by zts16]
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Zyklon-A
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| Quote: | : Originally posted by weeksie98
Barium and strontium nitrate tend to burn more smokily. |
Care to link a reference to back that claim?
It seems to me that Barium or strontium would produce much less smoke. This is only a theory, but consider this:
Only half the molar amount of group II nitrates will be needed for the same stoichiometry. Because All of the solid products contain potassium
compound, this will be cut in half (by moles.)
The main solid impurity is K2CO3, the corresponding Ba salt is : BaCO3 - which probably decomposes at the
temperatures that the reaction takes place. Thus producing more gasses and less solid material.
[Edited on 13-4-2014 by Zyklonb]
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copperastic
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Estes rocket engines.
Hi, Would i be able to use an Estes rocket engine attached to a stick for a firework? Also how could I launch fireworks if i live in an area were you
need a permit?
Thanks
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TheChemiKid
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This would not be a stable projectile unless you add something to stabilize.
When the police come
\( * O * )/ ̿̿ ̿̿ ̿'̿'̵͇̿̿з=༼ ▀̿̿Ĺ̯̿̿▀̿ ̿ ༽
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hyfalcon
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Realize, what goes up must come down. If it comes down and does damage, then there's liability involved. Any fireworking must be done in a safe
location. That means the countryside, not in the city.
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