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arkoma
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Just had cops show up
looking for a "meth lab" of course. They were actually rather adult and listened to reason, but IF I HADN'T HAD A BOUND LAB NOTEBOOK I probably would
have been fried.
[edit]five carloads of cops and the fire marshall to determine "common household chemicals", and I kept it all
[Edited on 6-1-2014 by arkoma]
"We believe the knowledge and cultural heritage of mankind should be accessible to all people around the world, regardless of their wealth, social
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Burner
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Where was this??
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arkoma
Redneck Overlord
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Nevada
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status, nationality, citizenship, etc" z-lib
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Zephyr
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Do you know why they thought you had a meth lab?
Were you buying red P online or doing something equally suspicious? If not, this story is even more worrying...
At least you got to keep your chemicals.
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numos
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What kind of safety measures does you lab have, fire cabinets, separation by chemical properties (eg. oxidizers and reducing agents in different
cabinets), fire extinguisher?
Just wanting to know what you got away with, since my lab is not perfect in that aspect. (Fire cabinets are expensive!)
What about overall look, clean, white, organized?
I feel where I live an eventual visit by authorities in unavoidable and I want to give my lab the best chance its got.
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arkoma
Redneck Overlord
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Quote: Originally posted by Pinkhippo11  | Do you know why they thought you had a meth lab?
Were you buying red P online or doing something equally suspicious? If not, this story is even more worrying...
At least you got to keep your chemicals. |
Nosy ass neighbors that ASSUME. NO RP or I2 My latest experiment was about anthocyanin pigments in various flowers, which I already
should have wrote up and posted.
As was expecting this, I already had  written on the inside cover of my lab notebook. THANK GOD I made one. Pages glued in, numbered and dated. It's what saved
me. I must say that the Fallon, NV Police and Fire Departments were quite professional and knowledgeable. (The officer was quite curious about my
electrolysis cell, and when i said it WASN'T Uncle Festers he smiled).
@numos--this is the extent of my "organization"  Laundry room counter, chems on the cabinet shelves above.
I did end up with a "souvenir" though 
"We believe the knowledge and cultural heritage of mankind should be accessible to all people around the world, regardless of their wealth, social
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The Volatile Chemist
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And this is why I'm cautious... Not to say at all that you aren't, arkoma, but the people that live in Canada have it easy, and don't worry too much.
I don't think that having a lab notebook (Which I do) could keep them from pinning SOMETHING on me for having, WOW, on-line bought chemicals. I don't
mind coming across as paranoid here, guys, I apologize. But the US can get away with a lot of pinning. They enforce some laws certain ways than
others. Oh well.
Sounds that you got a nice tester! Every so often when I bike around my neighborhood, I smell some funky things. Either one of the guys on this sit
live nearby, or there's some cooking nearby. Blegh.
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jock88
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Thats a sweet copper you persuaded the sheriffs department to leave with you arkoma. Whats that funny tube he's holding up?
God be with the days. I once went into a lab supply house and purchased nitroethanE, benzaldehyde, buthylamine, formic acid, methalamine, Iron etc etc
and paid cash and left. Thats about 25 years ago.
Not USA.
(sigh)
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arkoma
Redneck Overlord
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that's me holding the "funny tube" which was a presumptive test for methamphetamine, or any other goddamn amine i imagine. Was lucky the cop "running
the show" had some training. As soon as I flipped out my lab notebook at him, he said "well, folks that keep a notebook are usually legitimate". And
I still have my copy of "Illustrated Guide to Home Chemistry Experiments" that I ordered from the Nevada State Library. w00t w00t
"We believe the knowledge and cultural heritage of mankind should be accessible to all people around the world, regardless of their wealth, social
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bismuthate
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Do you think that a digital lab notebook would keep me out of trouble? I just started organizing my lab to make it look a bit more official.
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Mailinmypocket
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Maybe print a backup copy of your notes every so often, you never know, especially if your computer were to be taken- god forbid! The nice thing about
handwritten notes is that they are unique to you, in your writing and therefore more authentic than word documents. Then again that's just me thinking
out loud here.
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arkoma
Redneck Overlord
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I agree with mailinmypocket. I didn't have a legit bound logbook, so i just cut a large piece of vinyl wallpaper as a cover, and GLUED in a short
stack of printer paper, numbered all the pages and wrote all the following on the cover:
Obviously from the date, I started using it in just the nick of time. Previously I had been using a loose leaf binder.......
"We believe the knowledge and cultural heritage of mankind should be accessible to all people around the world, regardless of their wealth, social
status, nationality, citizenship, etc" z-lib
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The Volatile Chemist
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Oh crap, is there a problem with using a binder??? I have a Graphing paper notebook in one with scrap paper and notes... 
(Just hit 250 posts! Of course I was a national hazard from birth, but...  )
[Edited on 6-5-2014 by The Volatile Chemist]
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arkoma
Redneck Overlord
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| Quote: | Structure[edit]
The guidelines for lab notebooks vary widely between institution and between individual labs, but some guidelines are fairly common, for example, like
those in the reference.[2] The lab notebook is typically permanently bound and pages are numbered. Dates are given as a rule. All entries are with a
permanent marker, e.g., a ballpoint pen. The lab notebook is usually written as the experiments progress, rather than at a later date. In many
laboratories, it is the original place of record of data (no copying is carried out from other notes) as well as any observations or insights. For
data recorded by other means (e.g., on a computer), the lab notebook will record that the data was obtained and the identification of the data set
will be given in the notebook. Many adhere to the concept that a lab notebook should be thought of as a diary of activities that are described in
sufficient detail to allow another scientist to replicate the steps. In laboratories with several staff and a common laboratory notebook, entries in
the notebook are signed by those making them.
Legal aspects[edit]
To ensure that data cannot be easily altered, notebooks with permanently bound pages are often recommended. Researchers are often encouraged to write
only with unerasable pen, to sign and date each page, and to have their notebooks inspected periodically by another scientist who can read and
understand it. All of these guidelines can be useful in proving exactly when a discovery was made, in the case of a patent dispute.
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From here
My notebook is "ghetto", BUT it has permanently bound [glued], numbered pages and is written in ballpoint. The top of every active page is dated. I
even write it down if something I'm doing is pissing me off. i have read that in places like say, Dow Chemical, the lab notebooks are actually
NOTARIZED regularly.
Like I said, the young Law Enforcement Officer I dealt with [part of the clandestine lab enforcement team] told me that was what established in his
mind that I was doing "legit" hobby chemistry and not trying to blow smoke up his ass.
"We believe the knowledge and cultural heritage of mankind should be accessible to all people around the world, regardless of their wealth, social
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IrC
International Hazard
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Would be helpful to others if you would be specific as to why you were visited. What did you buy, from where, and so on. If neighbors turned you in
what activities did they normally see you doing which would lead them to conclude they needed to call police. These bits of information are what helps
others not make the same mistakes. Sad that today being legitimately interested in science forces us to be 'underground' but this seems to be the
reality.
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" Richard Feynman
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arkoma
Redneck Overlord
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I didn't buy anything. I have NEVER ordered chemicals. I WAS living at my daughter-in-laws (she threw me out over this), and doing my stuff in the
laundry room right inside the back door. The goddamn neighbor was in her backyard and thought she saw a "drug lab". I gotta be careful or I'll get
going on a rant here, because it really bothers me. I was LUCKY that the young officer (Ofc Vierra, Fallon, NV PD) was both knowledgeable and
actually believes in that great common-law tradition "innocent until". In fact, I wasn't even home at first, was at my church parish hall when he
called me and said, "hey wanna come home and explain this to me?". I had my notebook with me, as I was showing it to one of my friends @church.
D-in-laws house is on the same block as my church, and when I walked outside the entire damn street was full of cop cars and fire engines. Only
things he really asked about were my electrolysis cell and a piece of sink sprayer hose I had (landlord had just replaced kitchen faucet, so I saved
the old sprayer hose to rack off my homemade wine LOL). Fire Marshall looked at all my Wal-Mart acquired chems and said "Common household chemicals".
He was interested in the E-cell because of goddamn Uncle Festers electrolytic reduction of ephedrine, and thought the hose might be dope lab grade
reflux apparatus. I told him "been there, done that" when you could still buy l-eph, HI and Red P over the counter (in the same visit, no less) and
use real glass and reflux for 72 hours. Statute of limitations is WAY over on that. Cost something like 75 cents a gram to produce back in
1985...............w00t. Lucky I can still add 2+2 and get 4.
[digressing]And I just love it when idiots talk about "prope dope". That shit was racemic, start with l-eph or pseudo and its straight dextrorotary
baby.[/digressing]
Anyway, all's well that ends well, and since I turned 40 a decade ago lost interest (mostly P: ) in illegal drugs. EtOH!!!
edit-typos
edit- adding link used to shop here
[Edited on 6-8-2014 by arkoma]
[Edited on 6-8-2014 by arkoma]
"We believe the knowledge and cultural heritage of mankind should be accessible to all people around the world, regardless of their wealth, social
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numos
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This is what worries me. You got away because nothing was specifically a "chemical", or at least that's a big reason.
All of my chemicals, including the OTC ones are put into lab grade reagent bottles, and labeled by chemical name, formula, and NFPA 704 rating. And
I'd say less than than half my chemicals are OTC...
[Edited on 6-8-2014 by numos]
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The Volatile Chemist
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I've bought 9 chemicals online, none of those are OTC, but the rest of the ones I have are from an old chemistry set. Ugh, I guess if they come to
your house once, they won't again. I'll just have to hope the first time doesn't happen.
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Zyklon-A
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Yeah, same here. I have so many chemicals that are used in drug preparation (eg. iodine, GABA ect.), I'm not sure how it'd go over if the cops came.
Also lots of highly toxic/carcinogenic compounds (eg. chromates, nickel salts ect.).
Got lots of highly flammable and/or explosive compounds and powerful oxidizing agents (eg. Mg and Al powder, flammable liquids, various chlorates and
perchlorates, and pre-mixed flash powder ect.) - All stored very safely in a lockable steel cabinet of course.
I doubt they'd care too much about legal corrosive liquids (strong acids, and dissolved bases ect.)
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arkoma
Redneck Overlord
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[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon's_reagent]This[/url] was their "presumptive" test. If I understand correctly it turns blue in the presence of
ANY secondary amine.
@Zyklon--those folks in Austin are nuts, be careful.
Quote from here
| Quote: | "Chemical laboratory apparatus" means any item of equipment designed, made, or adapted to manufacture a controlled substance or a controlled substance
analogue, including:
(A) a condenser
(B) a distilling apparatus
(C) a vacuum drier
(D) a three-neck or distilling flask
(E) a tableting machine
(F) an encapsulating machine
(G) a filter, Buchner, or separatory funnel
(H) an Erlenmeyer, two-neck, or single-neck flask
(I) a round-bottom, Florence, thermometer, or filtering flask
(J) a Soxhlet extractor
(K) a transformer
(L) a flask heater
(M) a heating mantel or
(N) an adaptor tube |
"We believe the knowledge and cultural heritage of mankind should be accessible to all people around the world, regardless of their wealth, social
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Texium
Administrator
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Yeah, I'm thinking I should probably be a little bit concerned about that too, as I use everything on that list except for the tableting/encapsulating
machines and the soxhlet extractor. Not to mention owning quite a few chemicals that are also on their lists. One thing that I've made sure to do
though is tell my neighbors about what I do, so they don't get suspicious if they happen to see me walking around my backyard wearing an apron and
goggles and carrying curious glassware. That should prevent the problem that you had from happening to me.
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APO
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A notebook is a good idea. Thanks.
"Damn it George! I told you not to drop me!"
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numos
Hazard to Others
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Good god, this is Texas? Isn't this the state where 5 year olds get shotguns for birthdays? Manage the priorities, by god. I'm hoping California is a
bit more lenient, thought they still have a lot of environmental regulations.
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The Volatile Chemist
International Hazard
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| Quote: Originally posted by numos | | Good god, this is Texas? Isn't this the state where 5 year olds get shotguns for birthdays? Manage the priorities, by god. I'm hoping California is a
bit more lenient, thought they still have a lot of environmental regulations. |
LOL, this chemical is known to the state of California....
There's an XKCD comic about this for all who read them.
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arkoma
Redneck Overlord
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From Wired magazine
| Quote: | In the meantime, more than 30 states have passed laws to restrict sales of chemicals and lab equipment associated with meth production, which has
resulted in a decline in domestic meth labs, but makes things daunting for an amateur chemist shopping for supplies. It is illegal in Texas, for
example, to buy such basic labware as Erlenmeyer flasks or three-necked beakers without first registering with the state’s Department of Public
Safety to declare that they will not be used to make drugs. Among the chemicals the Portland, Oregon, police department lists online as “commonly
associated with meth labs” are such scientifically useful compounds as liquid iodine, isopropyl alcohol, sulfuric acid, and hydrogen peroxide, along
with chemistry glassware and pH strips. Similar lists appear on hundreds of Web sites.
“To criminalize the necessary materials of discovery is one of the worst things you can do in a free society,” says Shawn Carlson, a 1999
MacArthur fellow and founder of the Society for Amateur Scientists. “The Mr. Coffee machine that every Texas legislator has near his desk has three
violations of the law built into it: a filter funnel, a Pyrex beaker, and a heating element. The laws against meth should be the deterrent to making
it – not criminalizing activities that train young people to appreciate science.”
The increasingly strict regulatory climate has driven a wedge of paranoia between young chemists and their potential mentors. “I don’t
tell anyone about what I do at home,” writes one anonymous high schooler on Sciencemadness.org, an online forum for amateur scientists. “A lot of
ignorant people at my school will just spread rumors about me … The teacher will hear about them and I will get into legal trouble … I have so
much glassware at my house, any excuse will not cut it. So I keep my mouth shut.” |
^^^bold type added by me
From here
| Quote: | | Additionally, within a Texas law detailing penalties for those found in violation of drug policies, “intent
to unlawfully manufacture the controlled substance methamphetamine is presumed” if an individual possesses or transports a combination of 3 or more
of such common chemicals as iodine, lye (commonly found in drain cleaner), alcohol, paint thinner, or table salt, or any one of other useful
chemicals/materials in amateur science, including unregistered glassware |
Good thing I no longer live in Texas, I would have been possibly FUCKED.
Edit This "cop" forum can't even spell amateur correctly. Oh my oh my.
[Edited on 6-9-2014 by arkoma]
"We believe the knowledge and cultural heritage of mankind should be accessible to all people around the world, regardless of their wealth, social
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