Sciencemadness Discussion Board
Not logged in [Login ]
Go To Bottom

Printable Version  
 Pages:  1  2    4  ..  6
Author: Subject: Discontinued reagents
Magpie
lab constructor
*****




Posts: 5939
Registered: 1-11-2003
Location: USA
Member Is Offline

Mood: Chemistry: the subtle science.

[*] posted on 4-7-2014 at 17:10


Here's my list of chemicals I would buy right now if I could legally do so, assuming the price is within reason:

1. thionyl chloride, 250 ml
2. sodium borohydride, 250 g
3. carbon tetrachloride, 250 ml
4. phosphorus trichloride, 250 ml




The single most important condition for a successful synthesis is good mixing - Nicodem
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Texium
Administrator
********




Posts: 4459
Registered: 11-1-2014
Location: Salt Lake City
Member Is Offline

Mood: PhD candidate!

[*] posted on 4-7-2014 at 20:32


I second you on the carbon tetrachloride and sodium borohydride for sure.



Come check out the Official Sciencemadness Wiki
They're not really active right now, but here's my YouTube channel and my blog.
View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User
Loptr
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1347
Registered: 20-5-2014
Location: USA
Member Is Offline

Mood: Grateful

[*] posted on 5-7-2014 at 06:46


You sure are raising the bar, @Magpie. I would be interested as well, seconding the condition they could be legally obtained.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
prof_genius
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 147
Registered: 15-5-2013
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 7-7-2014 at 01:58


Dose anyone know where I can get Uranyl acetate and depleted uranium in Poland or The Netherlands, or any company that ships there.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
zenosx
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 188
Registered: 7-7-2012
Location: East TN / Near Oak Ridge
Member Is Offline

Mood: Awaiting Results....

[*] posted on 9-7-2014 at 18:27


I would say that it is possible to circumvent these legal liabilities by having disclaimers to the sale and use of said substances.

In the same way that tobacco manufacturers now circumvent lung cancer lawsuits, having similar disclaimers for the distribution of specific (if not all) chemicals that could cause potentially lethal harm to persons not physically able to properly handle them, could potentially make otherwise unobtainable chemicals available to the amateur, which would be any person not working in a professional laboratory setting.

Quote: Originally posted by Burner  
Quote: Originally posted by Magpie  
2) his liability for any problems resulting from our use of these more reactive, hazardous, etc, reagents is sufficiently low.


I suspect that this will be partuicularly problematical. We are a highly diverse group with varying levels of skill and laboratory training, operating in facilities ranging from primitive to sophisticated, pursuing experiments that can be cookbook to bleeding edge. Let's face it - we are risky in this regard, and there is little I feel that we can do to alter that perception when significant legal liability may be attached to these decisions.




A question that sometimes drives me hazy: am I or are the others crazy?

Albert Einstein
View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User
prof_genius
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 147
Registered: 15-5-2013
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 9-7-2014 at 18:43


I agree, a disclaimer like "(company name) is not responsible for any damage to health and property caused by their reagents, use at own risk!" would work.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
mr.crow
National Hazard
****




Posts: 884
Registered: 9-9-2009
Location: Canada
Member Is Offline

Mood: 0xFF

[*] posted on 13-7-2014 at 10:57


Quote: Originally posted by Magpie  
Here's my list of chemicals I would buy right now if I could legally do so, assuming the price is within reason:

1. thionyl chloride, 250 ml
2. sodium borohydride, 250 g
3. carbon tetrachloride, 250 ml
4. phosphorus trichloride, 250 ml


Number 1 and 4 are pretty toxic and reactive which might be a problem.

I agree with some suggestions posted on another thread. Organic bases and lewis acids seems to be very hard to find

- Anhydrous aluminum trichloride (needs a serious bottle since HCl gas always leaks out)
- Triethylamine (or HCl form)
- Pyridine (or HCl form)

Thanks to Tom for supporting amateur scientists!




Double, double toil and trouble; Fire burn, and caldron bubble
View user's profile View All Posts By User
prof_genius
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 147
Registered: 15-5-2013
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 13-7-2014 at 20:13


Shipping them in cans works(Aldrich dose it), and you could also seal them in plastic coated bottles(may cost a lot).
View user's profile View All Posts By User
tomholm
Owner of BME Lab and Science and Elemental Scientific
***




Posts: 178
Registered: 24-2-2014
Location: United States
Member Is Offline

Mood: Good

[*] posted on 19-7-2014 at 07:35


Here's my initial analysis of the chemicals suggested. These are all special order so I can't give specific costs unless I have a better idea of how many can be sold and in what quantities. If you could give me a little better idea on numbers and amounts, I can check further into best suppliers.


thionyl chloride ___500 ml____Hazardous___ Hazmat Pack
sodium borohydride___500 ml___Hazardous____Hazmat Pack
carbon tetrachloride ____500ml____Hazmat Pack
phosphorus trichloride___250 ml___Can't be shipped by UPS or FedEx
Anhydrous aluminum trichloride (Aluminum Chloride Anhydrous)___Hazmat Pack
Triethylamine____Hazmat Pack
Pyridine____100 ml, 500 ml___Hazardous___Hazmat Pack




View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User
gdflp
Super Moderator
*******




Posts: 1320
Registered: 14-2-2014
Location: NY, USA
Member Is Offline

Mood: Staring at code

[*] posted on 19-7-2014 at 07:47


Here are my suggestions,

Anthracene 125g
Oxalyl Chloride 250ml
Bromobenzene 250ml
Calcium Phosphide 125g
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Magpie
lab constructor
*****




Posts: 5939
Registered: 1-11-2003
Location: USA
Member Is Offline

Mood: Chemistry: the subtle science.

[*] posted on 19-7-2014 at 08:08


Thanks tomholm! I'm just in awe that you have offered to do this. Perhaps some here are shy about expressing their needs in public. For those, U2U or email might be better.

I will add acetyl chloride, 250 ml, to my list.




The single most important condition for a successful synthesis is good mixing - Nicodem
View user's profile View All Posts By User
tomholm
Owner of BME Lab and Science and Elemental Scientific
***




Posts: 178
Registered: 24-2-2014
Location: United States
Member Is Offline

Mood: Good

[*] posted on 19-7-2014 at 17:11


Here's my initial analysis of the chemicals suggested. These are all special order so I can't give specific costs unless I have a better idea of how many can be sold and in what quantities. If you could give me a little better idea on numbers and amounts, I can check further into best suppliers.


thionyl chloride ___500 ml____Hazardous___ Hazmat Pack
sodium borohydride___500 ml___Hazardous____Hazmat Pack
carbon tetrachloride ____500ml____Hazmat Pack
phosphorus trichloride___250 ml___Can't be shipped by UPS or FedEx
Anhydrous aluminum trichloride (Aluminum Chloride Anhydrous)___Hazmat Pack
Triethylamine____Hazmat Pack
Pyridine____100 ml, 500 ml___Hazardous___Hazmat Pack




View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User
mr.crow
National Hazard
****




Posts: 884
Registered: 9-9-2009
Location: Canada
Member Is Offline

Mood: 0xFF

[*] posted on 24-7-2014 at 20:45


Can we get in touch with you to special order these chemicals?

Another one to add to the list is oleum, SO3 dissolved in H2SO4 :)




Double, double toil and trouble; Fire burn, and caldron bubble
View user's profile View All Posts By User
tomholm
Owner of BME Lab and Science and Elemental Scientific
***




Posts: 178
Registered: 24-2-2014
Location: United States
Member Is Offline

Mood: Good

[*] posted on 25-7-2014 at 10:35
Special Order on Chemicals


Quote: Originally posted by mr.crow  
Can we get in touch with you to special order these chemicals?

Another one to add to the list is oleum, SO3 dissolved in H2SO4 :)


I am putting together a list of chemicals with options on quantities and pricing for these special order chemicals. I had hoped to be finished today, but it will take a little more time. Please check back on an update in 3-4 days and I will hopefully have more info on how to order.

Thx.

Tom




View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User
Dr.Bob
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 2636
Registered: 26-1-2011
Location: USA - NC
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 29-7-2014 at 05:03


I would suggest shipping the TEA and pyridine as the HCl salts. Both are easy to free base from the salts and that would convert them to much less expensive materials to ship, especially in smaller quantities, like 25g. Some of the others might be able to go under the small sample exemption if you get to a small enough amount, like 25-30 ml/g. The savings in shipping would still make it cheaper even if people wanted several small bottles.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
tomholm
Owner of BME Lab and Science and Elemental Scientific
***




Posts: 178
Registered: 24-2-2014
Location: United States
Member Is Offline

Mood: Good

[*] posted on 4-8-2014 at 20:43
Special Order Chemicals


OK, Folks. I'm ready to try special orders for some of the hard-to-get, discontinued chemicals. [It's taken a little longer than I thought to pull it all together, so I apologize for that.] On the Elemental website, I've set up a category called "Special Order Chemicals" that lists 12 of the hard-to-get chemicals suggested within this thread. From here, you can place your orders for these chemicals.

To try to better manage the shipping costs, I've created the following procedures for how the orders will be processed. Please keep in mind this is our first attempt at this and I welcome any and all suggestions on how to make this work better. I'll also remind you that I will not be buying these in bulk, so pricing may be a little higher than we'd all like on some of the chemicals. I'm hoping that this goes well and I can improve on that in that future, depending on customer response.

Also see that I have defined a window to place your orders. I've set this first cut-off period to be near the end of August. Again, depending on how well this works, we could continue to place special orders on a monthly or quarterly basis.

Here are the instructions on ordering these Special Order Chemicals.

Note: Special Order Chemicals are not stocked in inventory and are ordered on a pre-determined and announced schedule. To reduce shipping and handling fees on these orders, the orders are held and processed at one time.

Discounts will not be applied against Special Order Chemicals. Other items ordered along with Special Order Chemicals will have the discounts applied as usual.

Orders for these chemicals must be completed prior to the scheduled processing time. At the scheduled processing time, the chemicals will be ordered from the supplier(s). After the chemicals arrive from the supplier(s), customer orders will be processed and shipped.

The next processing time for Special Order Chemicals is August 25, 2014.




View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User
Haber
Harmless
*




Posts: 40
Registered: 13-4-2014
Location: Thule
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 5-8-2014 at 02:34


Quote: Originally posted by Magpie  
Here's my list of chemicals I would buy right now if I could legally do so, assuming the price is within reason:

1. thionyl chloride, 250 ml
2. sodium borohydride, 250 g
3. carbon tetrachloride, 250 ml
4. phosphorus trichloride, 250 ml

I am not familiar with US laws, so is it actually illegal to buy sodium borohydride in the US? Or is it to expensive?
View user's profile View All Posts By User
tomholm
Owner of BME Lab and Science and Elemental Scientific
***




Posts: 178
Registered: 24-2-2014
Location: United States
Member Is Offline

Mood: Good

[*] posted on 5-8-2014 at 07:15


Quote: Originally posted by Haber  
Quote: Originally posted by Magpie  
Here's my list of chemicals I would buy right now if I could legally do so, assuming the price is within reason:

1. thionyl chloride, 250 ml
2. sodium borohydride, 250 g
3. carbon tetrachloride, 250 ml
4. phosphorus trichloride, 250 ml

I am not familiar with US laws, so is it actually illegal to buy sodium borohydride in the US? Or is it to expensive?


Sodium borohydride is OK. It's one of the 12 in the Special Order category. Phosphorus trichloride cannot be shipped via UPS or FedEx, so is not included. Here's a list of the 12 that are now available for Special Order:



  1. Acetyl chloride 250 ml

  2. Anhydrous aluminum trichloride (Aluminum Chloride Anhydrous 1 kg

  3. Anthracene 100 g

  4. Bromobenzene 250 ml

  5. Calcium Phosphide 100g

  6. carbon tetrachloride 500 ml

  7. oleum, SO3 dissolved in H2SO4 20-30% Free 500 g

  8. Oxalyl Chloride 250g

  9. Pyridine 100 ml

  10. sodium borohydride 250 ml

  11. thionyl chloride 500 ml

  12. Triethylamine 1 kg






View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User
Magpie
lab constructor
*****




Posts: 5939
Registered: 1-11-2003
Location: USA
Member Is Offline

Mood: Chemistry: the subtle science.

[*] posted on 5-8-2014 at 08:53


tomholm: I wish to thank you for making these reagents available for the home chemist! I never thought I would see the day when certain of these would be available.

I think that many of us are probably still in shock and think that there must be a catch somewhere. We may think that by buying them our name will be put on a list by some 3-letter agency. But, in reality, our names are probably already on those lists for buying acetone and HNO3.

Some of the prices are high. I realize that this is probably due to the small orders that you have to place and that you do not have the capability to repackage to smaller containers. This is unfortunate as many of our members barely have enough money to buy essential glassware. I'm hoping that those members that have the knowledge and skill to use these chemicals will also find a way save up some money and buy them.





The single most important condition for a successful synthesis is good mixing - Nicodem
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Burner
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 100
Registered: 28-3-2014
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 5-8-2014 at 10:02


Tom,

How will some of the items (e.g. Oxalyl Chloride & Thionyl Chloride) be packaged? I would hope that these would be glass ampules, but I do not know what facilities you might have to do that type of packaging. Any help would be appreciated!





“There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.”

- Isaac Asimov
View user's profile View All Posts By User
tomholm
Owner of BME Lab and Science and Elemental Scientific
***




Posts: 178
Registered: 24-2-2014
Location: United States
Member Is Offline

Mood: Good

[*] posted on 5-8-2014 at 19:50


Quote: Originally posted by Burner  
Tom,

How will some of the items (e.g. Oxalyl Chloride & Thionyl Chloride) be packaged? I would hope that these would be glass ampules, but I do not know what facilities you might have to do that type of packaging. Any help would be appreciated!



I expect glass bottles, but some of these are new chemicals for me, as well. I noticed the Oxalyl requires "refrigeration".




View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User
Loptr
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1347
Registered: 20-5-2014
Location: USA
Member Is Offline

Mood: Grateful

[*] posted on 5-8-2014 at 19:55


Quote: Originally posted by tomholm  
Quote: Originally posted by Burner  
Tom,

How will some of the items (e.g. Oxalyl Chloride & Thionyl Chloride) be packaged? I would hope that these would be glass ampules, but I do not know what facilities you might have to do that type of packaging. Any help would be appreciated!



I expect glass bottles, but some of these are new chemicals for me, as well. I noticed the Oxalyl requires "refrigeration".


A few of these items I would most likely repackage using safety coated glass bottles, such as those available from Qorpak, if they didn't already come in something similar. I am not interested in glass breakage, especially with things such as thionyl chloride. No thank you.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
tomholm
Owner of BME Lab and Science and Elemental Scientific
***




Posts: 178
Registered: 24-2-2014
Location: United States
Member Is Offline

Mood: Good

[*] posted on 5-8-2014 at 20:32


Quote: Originally posted by Magpie  
tomholm: I wish to thank you for making these reagents available for the home chemist! I never thought I would see the day when certain of these would be available.

I think that many of us are probably still in shock and think that there must be a catch somewhere. We may think that by buying them our name will be put on a list by some 3-letter agency. But, in reality, our names are probably already on those lists for buying acetone and HNO3.

Some of the prices are high. I realize that this is probably due to the small orders that you have to place and that you do not have the capability to repackage to smaller containers. This is unfortunate as many of our members barely have enough money to buy essential glassware. I'm hoping that those members that have the knowledge and skill to use these chemicals will also find a way save up some money and buy them.



I guess I can't tell you how this is going to work out. We'll find out. All I can say is that, from my end, everything is being done above board. I expect members of this forum, as well as all of my customers, will handle these chemicals with care and use them for legitimate research purposes. If not, this is one experiment that will end very quickly.

Yes, unfortunately these chemicals do not come cheap. They require a lot of extra care in handling and there are not a lot of manufacturers and competition out there for many of these chemicals. That said, I did compare costs against other suppliers and feel that these are about the best I can do at this time. Hopefully, everyone will find a way to make this work.

I should also add that it is pretty difficult to accurately estimate hazardous shipping costs if multiple chemicals are ordered. Because of the combinations and the reactive possibilities between chemicals, shipping charges may need to be adjusted after reviewing a complete order. We would then let you know of any such adjustments. We'll need some flexibility here, but I've tried to indicate hazardous shipping charges when considering each chemical individually.

Thanks for all of your support.




View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User
Dr.Bob
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 2636
Registered: 26-1-2011
Location: USA - NC
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 6-8-2014 at 05:18


Oxalyl chloride is best refrigerated. but does fine at room temp for a long time. I would not try to ship it cold. I would double bag it and ship in a metal can, but you likely have the shipping guides. Some of the amounts that you list are pretty large, like 500 ml thionyl chloride. I do chemistry for a living and have not used 500 ml of it in 10 years time. So it might be nice to have a smaller option, as that is an example of a chemical that will be hard to dispose of if you have too much. Same for 1 kg of AlCl3, it will absorb a lot of water before you can use that much of it. But it sounds like a great effort to help home chemists.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
TheChemiKid
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 493
Registered: 5-8-2013
Location: ̿̿ ̿̿ ̿'̿'̵͇̿̿з=༼ ▀̿̿Ĺ̯̿̿▀̿ ̿ ༽
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 6-8-2014 at 06:17


Would it be possible for you to add phosphorus (red), or some of its compounds (eg. Phosphorus Tetroxide or any of the Halides)?



When the police come


\( * O * )/ ̿̿ ̿̿ ̿'̿'̵͇̿̿з=༼ ▀̿̿Ĺ̯̿̿▀̿ ̿ ༽
View user's profile View All Posts By User
 Pages:  1  2    4  ..  6

  Go To Top