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Author: Subject: Discontinued reagents
careysub
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[*] posted on 12-8-2014 at 16:23


Quote: Originally posted by Magpie  
I did some research to see what requirements apply to Chemical Weapons Convention schedule 3 chemicals in the US. The only requirements I could find are shown here:

http://cfr.regstoday.com/15cfr714.aspx

Unless I have missed something it seems that the requirements apply only to manufacturers and import/export companies. And the cutoff-point is 30 tonnes!

Does anyone else know of any CWC requirements that would apply to Elemental Scientific or the US home chemist?


They wouldn't apply directly - but DHS regulations (derived in part from the CWC reqs) might.

Here is an interesting relevant document that contains summaries of discussion on possible regulation by the DHS. It does not look like they have yet translated into DEA-like sales restrictions, it has focused thus far on regulations for commercial chemical storage and transport where "large" amounts are involved:

http://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/chemsec_appendixafinalrul...

Explosives precursors are regulated also by the ATF, and DHS regulation of ammonium nitrate in particular was enacted separately as part of an appropriations bill:

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/PLAW-110publ161/pdf/PLAW-110pub...
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[*] posted on 14-8-2014 at 19:56


I get this message on the website :(

CP : Merchant CPC Id not found on server. (P206.5 W3 Z2)




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[*] posted on 20-8-2014 at 15:39
5 Days Left to Order Chemicals


Just want to remind you all that you have 5 days left to place your order for the special order chemicals listed on Elemental Scientific web site www.elementalscientific.net. Just complete your order as normal and I will process the orders on August 26th.

Thanks again.




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[*] posted on 22-8-2014 at 11:57


Quote: Originally posted by tomholm  
Just want to remind you all that you have 5 days left to place your order for the special order chemicals listed on Elemental Scientific web site www.elementalscientific.net. Just complete your order as normal and I will process the orders on August 26th.

Thanks again.


I can't place any orders

I still get the error CP : Merchant CPC Id not found on server. (P206.5 W3 Z2)

It looks like something is fudged up with Canada Post's integration with your website. I would really like to get an order in.


[Edited on 22-8-2014 by mr.crow]




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[*] posted on 22-8-2014 at 14:11


Quote: Originally posted by mr.crow  
Quote: Originally posted by tomholm  
Just want to remind you all that you have 5 days left to place your order for the special order chemicals listed on Elemental Scientific web site www.elementalscientific.net. Just complete your order as normal and I will process the orders on August 26th.

Thanks again.


I can't place any orders

I still get the error CP : Merchant CPC Id not found on server. (P206.5 W3 Z2)

It looks like something is fudged up with Canada Post's integration with your website. I would really like to get an order in.


[Edited on 22-8-2014 by mr.crow]


Maybe you could do a phone order.
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[*] posted on 22-8-2014 at 14:23


Is there any way of buying less than 1 kg of triethylamine? I want it, but I don't need and can't afford that much.



As below, so above.

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[*] posted on 22-8-2014 at 14:36


Quote: Originally posted by Cheddite Cheese  
Is there any way of buying less than 1 kg of triethylamine? I want it, but I don't need and can't afford that much.


Perhaps split it with a trusted member? that way you get as much as you need and pay less.
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[*] posted on 23-8-2014 at 13:33


Quote: Originally posted by mr.crow  
Quote: Originally posted by tomholm  
Just want to remind you all that you have 5 days left to place your order for the special order chemicals listed on Elemental Scientific web site www.elementalscientific.net. Just complete your order as normal and I will process the orders on August 26th.

Thanks again.


I can't place any orders

I still get the error CP : Merchant CPC Id not found on server. (P206.5 W3 Z2)

It looks like something is fudged up with Canada Post's integration with your website. I would really like to get an order in.


[Edited on 22-8-2014 by mr.crow]


Sorry. Looks like we are having trouble with processing sales to our Canadian friends. Please email or call order information to info@elementalscientific.net and we will process the order the old fashioned way. We can send a PayPal payment request if you would like to pay that way.

Sorry for the inconvenience.

Tom




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tomholm
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[*] posted on 23-8-2014 at 13:41


Quote: Originally posted by HeYBrO  
Quote: Originally posted by Cheddite Cheese  
Is there any way of buying less than 1 kg of triethylamine? I want it, but I don't need and can't afford that much.


Perhaps split it with a trusted member? that way you get as much as you need and pay less.


If I split it into 500 g sizes would that work? Price would probably be around $65. I want to double check to see if it's something we want to be working with.




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[*] posted on 23-8-2014 at 20:02


Quote: Originally posted by Cheddite Cheese  
Is there any way of buying less than 1 kg of triethylamine? I want it, but I don't need and can't afford that much.


I just added the 500g item to the system, so you should be able to order it that way now. Hopefully, it works out for everyone.

Thanks everyone!




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Metacelsus
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[*] posted on 24-8-2014 at 07:06


Great; I will buy it.



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[*] posted on 24-8-2014 at 08:23


Thank you, Tom!

I submitted my order this morning. Any approximate idea when this will ship out? I have an upcoming vacation.
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[*] posted on 25-8-2014 at 16:02


Quote: Originally posted by Loptr  
Thank you, Tom!

I submitted my order this morning. Any approximate idea when this will ship out? I have an upcoming vacation.


I intend to place the orders tomorrow morning. Typically, I would receive the order in approximately 1 week and should be able to turn the orders around quickly. Assuming no back orders, you should be receiving the products within about 2 weeks.




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[*] posted on 25-8-2014 at 19:18


Quote: Originally posted by tomholm  
Quote: Originally posted by Loptr  
Thank you, Tom!

I submitted my order this morning. Any approximate idea when this will ship out? I have an upcoming vacation.


I intend to place the orders tomorrow morning. Typically, I would receive the order in approximately 1 week and should be able to turn the orders around quickly. Assuming no back orders, you should be receiving the products within about 2 weeks.


Awesome :)

I sent an email, I hope its not too late




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[*] posted on 26-8-2014 at 11:38
Discontinued Reagents


Thanks to all for participating in the first month's special order for chemicals. I've placed the order and it looks like I should be able to get most of the product in and re-shipped out in a couple of weeks. I did learn a few things from this process.

1. Thionyl Chloride is now on the Chemical Warfare Convention list for restricted chemicals. Furthermore, neither FedEx nor UPS will accept it for shipping. [Although FedEx had a mistake in their printed version of their Hazardous Materials Guidelines that indicated that it could be shipped as hazardous material.] As a result, I have removed that item from our list of Special Order Chemicals.

2. Because of logistics, I ordered some extra Pyridine and Triethylamine. Not much extra, but a little. So, if you would like to order some of those, I'll be able to fill that for a couple of more orders.

There were a number of chemicals that had been suggested and offered that nobody ordered. I'd appreciate your feedback on those as to whether it was not the right quantity or if the price was too high? Perhaps, I can look to see if I can make any adjustments on those. Here are the chemicals not ordered by anyone:



  1. Acetyl Chloride
  2. Carbon Tetrachloride
  3. Anthracene
  4. Oxalyl Chloride
  5. Calcium Phosphide



I'd like to continue to do a monthly special chemical order. So the next order end date will be September 28th. I'll be updating the list of chemicals on the website. I'll be trying to offer smaller sizes on some, but can't guarantee it. Please submit suggestions for chemicals you'd like to see added to the list for the upcoming month and I can look into those for feasibility.

I continue to be open to suggestions on how we might improve this process, so I would appreciate your comments.

Thanks.

Tom




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[*] posted on 26-8-2014 at 12:51


It's probably been said before but I think it's worth repeating: it's really great to see a science supplier that not only caters to the amateur, but also participates in our forum and responds to our community's feedback! This special order thing is awesome. My special order request: tetralin. Nurdrage used it in the potassium synthesis and its density and reactivity are very favorable.

I think one of the reasons people were reluctant to buy some of these is the quantity. Most of us amateur chemists don't need kilograms or liters for most things. I think 500 g (mL) would make a good upper limit on quantity if you're able and willing to repackage.
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[*] posted on 26-8-2014 at 17:03


Quote: Originally posted by tomholm  

There were a number of chemicals that had been suggested and offered that nobody ordered. I'd appreciate your feedback on those as to whether it was not the right quantity or if the price was too high? Perhaps, I can look to see if I can make any adjustments on those. Here are the chemicals not ordered by anyone:



  1. Acetyl Chloride
  2. Carbon Tetrachloride
  3. Anthracene
  4. Oxalyl Chloride
  5. Calcium Phosphide




Thanks.

Tom


I'm still a noob, so it will not be soon that I will want exotic reagents, but I am somewhat interested in CCl4, because it once was a common chemical and several older home chemistry books mention it. However $229 for 500ml is way beyond my price point. I guess it is that high because it is high purity for spectroscopic purposes. Would it be possible for you to get lower purity for more like $15-30 for 500ml?
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[*] posted on 26-8-2014 at 18:10


Quote: Originally posted by Artemus Gordon  


I'm still a noob, so it will not be soon that I will want exotic reagents, but I am somewhat interested in CCl4, because it once was a common chemical and several older home chemistry books mention it. However $229 for 500ml is way beyond my price point. I guess it is that high because it is high purity for spectroscopic purposes. Would it be possible for you to get lower purity for more like $15-30 for 500ml?


I will look around a little more, but CCL4 is very expensive. Seems to go from $30 - $50/g. Even if I buy it in larger quantities, it's still well over $125 for 500 ml. I'm not sure purity makes much of a difference (or at least even a lower purity will not get to the price point you are looking for.) I see they even sell it by the ug. The EPA has determined that it is bad for the ozone. With such a high price, it seems that you are being strongly encouraged to find an alternative.





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[*] posted on 26-8-2014 at 22:25


Try looking at companies in India like Thomas Baker.
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[*] posted on 29-8-2014 at 05:39


Quote: Originally posted by tomholm  
T

1. Thionyl Chloride is now on the Chemical Warfare Convention list for restricted chemicals. Furthermore, neither FedEx nor UPS will accept it for shipping. [Although FedEx had a mistake in their printed version of their Hazardous Materials Guidelines that indicated that it could be shipped as hazardous material.] As a result, I have removed that item from our list of Special Order Chemicals.


Tom


So...I don't mean to be difficult, but explain something to me. If some research professor out there needs to use thionyl chloride, which is still definitely sold by lab suppliers and according to the wiki article, not particularly obscure, how in the world do they get it if Fedex & UPS won't ship it? I'm not saying I don't believe you, I'm just saying I find this baffling. Surely all kinds of dangerous things have a way they can be shipped, alkali metals, etc. In fact when I google it I see that you can order, in apparently unlimited quantity, special long life AA batteries that apparently contain it along with lithium. Though, given the reputation lithium batteries already have, I think I'd be afraid to leave a thionyl chloride/lithium battery inserted into a device anywhere near my house LOL.
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[*] posted on 29-8-2014 at 06:43


Some more specialized shipping companies will handle the more hazardous stuff. Where I work these things usually are delivered by Dicom Express. It probably is the same for the USA. They must use some other courriers
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[*] posted on 29-8-2014 at 09:45


Quote: Originally posted by DieForelle  
Quote: Originally posted by tomholm  
T

1. Thionyl Chloride is now on the Chemical Warfare Convention list for restricted chemicals. Furthermore, neither FedEx nor UPS will accept it for shipping. [Although FedEx had a mistake in their printed version of their Hazardous Materials Guidelines that indicated that it could be shipped as hazardous material.] As a result, I have removed that item from our list of Special Order Chemicals.


Tom


So...I don't mean to be difficult, but explain something to me. If some research professor out there needs to use thionyl chloride, which is still definitely sold by lab suppliers and according to the wiki article, not particularly obscure, how in the world do they get it if Fedex & UPS won't ship it? I'm not saying I don't believe you, I'm just saying I find this baffling. Surely all kinds of dangerous things have a way they can be shipped, alkali metals, etc. In fact when I google it I see that you can order, in apparently unlimited quantity, special long life AA batteries that apparently contain it along with lithium. Though, given the reputation lithium batteries already have, I think I'd be afraid to leave a thionyl chloride/lithium battery inserted into a device anywhere near my house LOL.


It would have to come by freight or some other specialized delivery service to the university, which is very common. They are in essence a business, and have hazmat handling facilities, etc., which the common person wouldn't. If you have ever had lab at a university, thionyl chloride is a very common reagent that is found there, along with other nasties that aren't easily available to individuals.

A "research professor" is not a good comparison in this case.

@mailinmypocket, I don't not know how I missed your response. :o

[Edited on 29-8-2014 by Loptr]
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[*] posted on 29-8-2014 at 09:48


Not to go off topic, but thionyl chloride isn't too hard to make, it a well equipped lab at least.
SO2 + Cl2 + SCl2 → 2 SOCl2

SCl2 can be synthesized easily with sulfur, chlorine, and a distillation setup. Chlorine and SO2 can be isolated/prepared easily.
SO2 + COCl2 → SOCl2 + CO2

This method could also work, if phosgene is available.




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[*] posted on 29-8-2014 at 10:51


Interesting feedback guys. Thanks. I didn't know there was a category of shipper that specialized in hazmat material but if you google such, they appear. The funny thing about it is, the stuff is so <a href="https://www.spectrumchemical.com/OA_HTML/productChemicalPDF.jsp?pCategory=TH138&sectionId=10212&sitex=10020:22372:US&utm_source=PrdD tlPage&utm_medium=PrinterIcon&utm_campaign=PDF_SEO">darn expensive</a>, the cost of getting to you probably just gets lost in the noise - I've been surprised a couple times that when I had to have LTL shipments to my house, they really aren't that expensive. Even though I don't have a loading dock, obviously. Though presumably these special hazmat LTL shippers jack up the prices for all the terrible risks they incur...
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[*] posted on 29-8-2014 at 11:07


Thionyl chloride is likely shipped by ground freight, thus expensive. Oxalyl chloride might be also. And if you have a cylinder of phosgene, then I would guess that getting either thionyl chloride or oxalyl chloride should not be too hard. But a big bottle (1L) of thionyl chloride will last for years, we have one from 1990's that is still being used, most reactions only need a few ml, so unless you are scaling up something, it should last forever. That is why a 25 g bottle ought to handle any small scale experiments. Same for POCl3, my recent large scale reaction only needed 5 g of it to make 15 of a chloride.

Some of those chemicals might be shipped as small samples if under 30-35 grams. That would relieve some of the regulatory burden, as they can be shipped with less issues then, although I don't know the details, but that is what we are told when we have to ship something, to keep it at 25g or less.

As for the list, here are some thoughts:

Acetyl Chloride - This might be more useful in 25 g bottles, again due to shipping, Stable in normal usage, so while acidic, not too bad. The anhydride is likely less hazardous to ship, so maybe that would work.

Carbon Tetrachloride - Aldrich sells a 1L bottle for $100, with shipping it might be a lot, there are other sources that sell 4L bottles for similar pricing, so it also could be repackaged for about $25 per 100 ml, I would think.-----
"Carbon tetrachloride, for determinations with dithizone, =99.9%" 56-23-5 SIGMA ALDRICH INC 87031-1L 99.9000% (GC) | =99.9% 100.0 USD EA 1.0 L EA|Product Size: 1L|Product Synonyms: Tetrachloromethane CCl4 153.82 87031

Anthracene - easy to store and ship, so should be simple to order and repackage, not hazmat so no problem to ship, just not used everyday.

Oxalyl Chloride - This is more dangerous than acetyl chloride, as it builds up pressure in some cases. Some companies sell it as a solution in DCM, that might help but keeping the total volume under 25g might help.

Calcium Phosphide - Sold by many vendors in 25 bottles for $25 each, might be best to buy that way and just reship in 25g bottles.
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