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Author: Subject: Is there a relationship between Magnetism and Gravity..what is it?
solo
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[*] posted on 10-1-2005 at 19:26
Is there a relationship between Magnetism and Gravity..what is it?


Although you can't see it touch it ...but it's there, both magnetism and gravity can be seen by their effect. One case is the the falling object , being drawn down by gravity, and the the other the opposing magnets being drawn together. Some scientist say that both magnetism and gravity are one of the same, if so, then like magnetism , gravity can be manipulated to use in a productive manner and we can harnest the energy within it to generate useful applications.....solo

.......here is some interesting reading,
http://home.tiscali.nl/gibbon/gravity.htm
http://www.hatem.com/atom.htm#atom

[Edited on 11-1-2005 by solo]




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chemoleo
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[*] posted on 10-1-2005 at 19:52


As far as I know electric fields combine with magnetic fields to form electromagnetic fields (radiation).
There is no such union of forces known between the gravitational force and the former two forces mentioned.
I think in part this is the reason why there has been nearly a century-long struggle to come to a union between the general theory of relativity (which implicates gravitational forces) and quantum mechanics.

Anyway, I hardly think they are one of the same, after all you have poles in magnetic fields, while you don't have that with gravity.

I_am_a_fish will be the man to comment on this.




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neutrino
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[*] posted on 11-1-2005 at 03:19


This is one of the current hotbeds in theoretical physics: trying to unify all four of the fundamental forces. So far, physicists have managed to show that the electromagnetic and weak nuclear forces are just aspects of the electroweak force and I’m pretty sure that they have managed to unite this with the strong nuclear force. Gravity, though, is the tricky one they’re still working on.
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[*] posted on 11-1-2005 at 03:25


Those websites are utter nonsense. They are of no scientific interest (except from a psychiatric perspective).

Just some of the absurdities and elementary mistakes:

  • It is stated that the south pole of a magnet is attracted to the Earth's magnetic north pole. However, the reverse is true. The north pole of a magnet is defined as that which points towards geographical north. The Earth's north magnetic pole is actually the south pole of a magnet.

  • It makes much of the fact that compass needles have to be weighted on one side in order to remain horizontal. However, this is simply because the Earth's magnetic field lines don't run parallel to its surface. The north pole of an unweighted compass (in the northern hemisphere) will point into the ground, as this is where the field lines point. The weighting is to compensate for this.

  • The author seems to assume that any force involving the Earth must be gravity. Gravity by definition is a force in which mass acts as a charge. Forces that depend on other types of charge are not gravity, regardless of whether they appear to give objects weight.

  • It is stated that the Earth's magnetic field is sufficiently strong to alter the magnetic polarity of objects, resulting in magnetic attraction between them, hence gravitational attraction. This is manifestly false. At the Earth's surface, its magentic field is feeble and is unable to significantly magnetise anything. If the theory was correct, diamagnetic materials (which oppose magnetic fields they are subjected to) would be repelled by the earth. Furthermore, the field strength of a magnetic dipole is proportional to the inverse cube of distance. Gravity however, is observed to be an inverse square force.

  • The theory makes no testable predictions.




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Mickhael
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[*] posted on 11-1-2005 at 12:11
Hmm...


This is coming from a slightly "novice" point of veiw, but I always felt that since magnetism was created through electrical fields - electromagnetics, and so that gravity was a result of that, because the "fields" put force/pull against the electrons in normal matter...*shrugs*
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neutrino
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[*] posted on 11-1-2005 at 14:40


Electromagnetic interactions are caused by interactions of photons, gravitational attraction are thought to be due to gravitons (I’m not even going into the Higgs particle here). If you look at the relative strengths of these forces you will see just how ridiculously wrong you are.

Gravity = 10
Weak Nuclear = 10<sup>15</sup>
Electromagnetic = 10<sup>38</sup>
Strong Nuclear = 10<sup>40</sup>

The numbers speak for themselves: the electromagnetic force is about 10 trillion trillion times stronger than the gravitational. Imagine living on a planet with that type of gravity…:P
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[*] posted on 11-1-2005 at 15:20


What you are talking about is reconciling quantum mechanics with general relativity, which has not been done yet.



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chemoleo
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[*] posted on 11-1-2005 at 17:28
String theory


But doesn't string theory attempt to do precisely that?
Then of course there is the standard model - which is more a set of equations that work extremely well, but are known to not to be the placeholder of the ultimate equation.

Anyway, there is another thread on this, see this.
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[*] posted on 12-1-2005 at 01:27


String Theory is trying to do that, it hasn't really produced a complete theory. Quantum gravity is another one trying to do so. Roger Penrose is trying another method with spinors and twistors hoping to produce a coherent theory that contains both quantum theory and relativity.

Besides, electromagentism and gravity can be unified in the Kaluza-Klein Theory where there are 5 dimensions.




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[*] posted on 20-1-2005 at 13:02


Wait a minute, wasn't String Theory disproved? I think some genious disproved it a little while back, then introduced M theory, which is kind of improved version of string theory...
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[*] posted on 22-1-2005 at 07:39


String theory was introduced originally to attempt to explain quark-gluon interaction until the advent of quantum chromodynamics.

It's been revived in attempts to reconcile the different fundamental forces - strong nuclear, weak nuclear, electromagnetic and gravitic - but different interpretations reconciling different forces exist. M-theory was introduced by Witten to show all these string theories to be the same.




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solo
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[*] posted on 22-1-2005 at 12:31
Ref: Relationship between Magnetic and gravity


The hope is to have a mathematical factor to work in both the gravitational and magnetic equations so there is a conversion factor in manipulating the equations . The source of the logic either from various string theories or the the grand M theory, which combines all string theories, will perhaps at the end give us just that the unknown factor that unites both sources of energy.....solo



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[*] posted on 3-7-2006 at 12:50


Quote:
Originally posted by solo
Is there a relationship between Magnetism and Gravity..what is it?

Perhaps , what's needed is a working explaination :)

I don't pretend to understand it, the mathematics are more than I can chew.

Given the scholarly nature of the work I think it should be more widely known.

I have corresponded with the gentleman on other matters relating to the

resolution of internal electromagnetic forces in circuits. Thats how I uncovered

it. This is his homepage -> http://www.ifi.unicamp.br/~assis

Index of papers are here -> http://www.ifi.unicamp.br/~assis/wpapers.htm

The ones I am citing are number 20 , and 36

Direct download here _

http://www.ifi.unicamp.br/~assis/Can-J-Phys-V70-p330-340(199...

http://www.ifi.unicamp.br/~assis/gravitation-4th-order-p314-...

.
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