DeAdFX
Hazard to Others
Posts: 339
Registered: 1-7-2005
Location: Brothel
Member Is Offline
Mood: @%&$ing hardcore baby
|
|
Manganeese tie-dye
A few moments ago I was experimenting with potassium permanganate, oxi-clean and vinger(otc acetic acid). The concentration is diluted to 5% with
acidity
Procedure
I first added ~25 ml of acetic acid to a 400ml beaker. I then diluted the acetic acid by adding ~25ml of water to the beaker.
I measured 1-5grams of oxi-clean(I did this experiment a few times) and added it to the 400ml beaker. I moved the beaker around to get the contents
mixed up.
Once the contents were mixed up I added potassium permanganate at small amounts. Less than a gram at a time. Probably 100ish mg at a time? My scale
is not accurate so it would of done me no good to measure the permanganate.
Observations
Once the permanganate was added to the beaker there was a purple color, another color(different oxidization state) and some fizzing. If there is to
much oxi-clean it will be difficult to identify the colors. Interesting thing is that the hole solution didn't go purple. Normally when you add
potassium permanganate to water the entire thing goes purple after the addition of it didnt.
When i swirled the solution around there would be a mixture of the different color and purple at the bottom of the beaker. This seems interesting
because this mixture should be homogenous as in the entire beaker should be only one color? After some swirling the solution would go colorless
eventually.
Verification(make sure I had something interesting)
I also made a solution of permanganate and oxilcean and potassium permanganate and acetic acid.
The permanganate/oxi-clean fizzed and yeiled a perciptate while the acetic acid combo yeilded a purple solution.
Questions/discussion stuff
Why is there no perciptate with the permanganate/oxi-clean/vinger mix?
Will just plain hydrogen peroxide work instead of oxiclean or does the sodium bicarbonate have any function in the reaction?
Are any of you getting the same results as me or are the impurties in my chemicals causing this?
Is the mixture truly homogenous or am I overlooking something?
[Edited on 22-12-2005 by DeAdFX]
|
|
|
chemoleo
Biochemicus Energeticus
Posts: 3005
Registered: 23-7-2003
Location: England Germany
Member Is Offline
Mood: crystalline
|
|
What were you trying to do with this reaction?
Oxiclean is what? Please try to say that, not everyone is using exactly the products you are using.
I assume you are mixing
HAc (or vinegar? it's got lots of organic crap in it) + H2O2 (with unknown 'oxiclean' additives' and KMnO4.
Ordinarily I'd expect the evolution of CO2, and possibly O2, from the HAc, adn the KMnO4.
Also, you didnt say what the 'other' colour was.
Sodium carbonate will just react with vinegar to form sodium acetate.
So possibly all you are forming is some peroxo-state of permanganates.
[Edited on 23-12-2005 by chemoleo]
Never Stop to Begin, and Never Begin to Stop...
Tolerance is good. But not with the intolerant! (Wilhelm Busch)
|
|
|
DeAdFX
Hazard to Others
Posts: 339
Registered: 1-7-2005
Location: Brothel
Member Is Offline
Mood: @%&$ing hardcore baby
|
|
Well the bottle says distilled vinegar + water.
Oxi-clean is this http://www.oxiclean.com/151616A05products.asp?MainNav=Produc...
It is Sodium percarbonate and sodium carbonate. http://alsnetbiz.com/homeimprovement/compare_oxybleach.html
MY potassium permanganate was aquired from an internet chemical store. I beleive it is technical grade though as it was fairily cheap.
Discussions on sciencemadness that discuss oxiclean/sodium percarbonate ...
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=3184#p...
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=2407#p...
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=2444#p...
I wanted to see if the oxi-clean would be decomposed by the permangnate(atleast the percarbonate part of it) and also see if organic materails
affected the decomposition of the percarbonate.
I can't say what the other color was exactly as it blended in with the purple color.
Another edit almost gorgot... My beaker had some charred crap on the bottom. Not much but(couple small dots on the sides and middle) it would be
nice to know if someone reported similar results as mine.
[Edited on 23-12-2005 by DeAdFX]
[Edited on 23-12-2005 by DeAdFX]
|
|
|
woelen
Super Administrator
Posts: 7977
Registered: 20-8-2005
Location: Netherlands
Member Is Offline
Mood: interested
|
|
Beware, there are two types of oxi-clean. The stuff I have is almost 100% pure sodium carbonate peroxyhydrate. This is an adduct of Na2CO3, H2O2 and
H2O. The newer stuff, however, contains a lot of detergents and other stuff and only 30% of sodium carbonate peroxyhydrate. They have 'improved' the
formula.
With acid, the carbonate decomposes, giving CO2 and in solution, the H2O2 and the acid-salt (in your case acetate) remains. With excess acid present,
the H2O2 reduces the permanganate to Mn(2+). If the acidity is low, then you'll also get hydrous MnO2, which may look brown/red at low concentration.
|
|
|
DeAdFX
Hazard to Others
Posts: 339
Registered: 1-7-2005
Location: Brothel
Member Is Offline
Mood: @%&$ing hardcore baby
|
|
I just tried oxalic acid. The reaction works the same different colors though. Well the purple is still the same though. When a excess of
permangnate is added the final color of the solution is red. I used 3 grams of oxalic acid and 1.5 grams of oxi-clean and added small amounts of
permanganate.
I guess its safe to assume any sort of organic acid will work in the reaction. Next guess would be to try an alcohol. I have deantured alcohol ethyl
+ methyl alcohol.
Forgot to mention that I used 50ml of water to dissolve the oxalic and ox iclean... Another thing when i added all 1.5grams of oxi-clean i had this
perciptate on the bottom(no KMnO4 had been added). Ill assume sodium oxalate. 50ml of water should be enough to dissolve it? Whats the the deal
with the perciptate?
[Edited on 23-12-2005 by DeAdFX]
[Edited on 23-12-2005 by DeAdFX]
|
|
|
neutrino
International Hazard
Posts: 1583
Registered: 20-8-2004
Location: USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: oscillating
|
|
Was there any bubbling? The precipitate was probably NaHCO<sub>3</sub>, which has very limited solubility.
|
|
|
DeAdFX
Hazard to Others
Posts: 339
Registered: 1-7-2005
Location: Brothel
Member Is Offline
Mood: @%&$ing hardcore baby
|
|
With the addition of oxi-clean to the oxalic acid yes... After the unknown stuff percipitated no bubbling. It probably was NaHCO3...
[Edited on 24-12-2005 by DeAdFX]
|
|
|
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
