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BJ68
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[*] posted on 10-12-2014 at 23:16
Austrian Law


According with the EU directive 98/2013 the Austrian government is changing the local chemistry law.

See (in German):
http://www.parlament.gv.at/PAKT/VHG/XXV/I/I_00371/index.shtm...


The possession, handling, production and use of chemicals with higher concentrations as in annex I (98/2013) is for members of the general public forbidden after the transition period until March 3 2016.

Violations of this law will be prosecuted with at least 500 Euro fine....

Here the text:
36. als Mitglied der Allgemeinheit einen Ausgangsstoff für Explosivstoffe oberhalb der in Anhang I der Verordnung (EU) Nr. 98/2013 festgelegten Konzentrationsgrenze – oder, falls für einen in Art. 4 Abs. 3 angeführten Ausgangsstoff eine Ausnahme durch eine Registrierung gemäß einer nach § 10 Abs. 3 erlassenen Verordnung ermöglicht ist, ohne registriert zu sein – nach Ablauf der Übergangsfrist gemäß Art. 16 der Verordnung (EU) Nr. 98/2013 besitzt oder verwendet, begeht, wenn die Tat nicht mit gerichtlicher Strafe bedroht ist, eine Verwaltungs- übertretung und ist mit Geldstrafe von mindestens 500 € bis zu 20 180€, im Wiederholungsfall bis zu 40 375 € zubestrafen. Der Versuch ist strafbar.

Additionally if you use the chemicals for explosives (even black powder) you can get up to 1 year in jail....and the judge is forced to inflict custodial sentence and not a financial penalty....which makes a huge difference.

Here the §:
§ 71a. Wer einen Stoff nach den Anhängen I oder II der Verordnung
(EU) Nr. 98/2013 oder Gemische oder Stoffe, die diese Stoffe enthalten, mit dem
Vorsatz erwirbt, besitzt oder einem anderen überlässt, dass dieser bei der vorschriftswidrigen
Erzeugung von Schieß- oder Sprengmitteln verwendet werde, ist,
wenn die Tat nicht nach einer anderen Bestimmung mit strengerer Strafe bedroht
ist, mit Freiheitsstrafe bis zu einem Jahr zu bestrafen. § 175 Abs. 2 des Strafgesetzbuches,
BGBl. Nr. 60/1974, gilt sinngemäß.

Bj68


[Edited on 11-12-2014 by BJ68]

[Edited on 11-12-2014 by BJ68]
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kecskesajt
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[*] posted on 10-12-2014 at 23:35


Hi neighbour!I cant read it but will this law get here?(Hungary) ):
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BJ68
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[*] posted on 10-12-2014 at 23:40


Quote: Originally posted by kecskesajt  
Hi neighbour!I cant read it but will this law get here?(Hungary) ):



Yes....is EU regulation what every member state of the EU must implement in local law.

Here the 98/2013 in English:
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2...

Check the law making process at your local government, because since 2. September 2014 is regulation is in force...

Bj68

[Edited on 11-12-2014 by BJ68]

Here in Hungarian:
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2...

[Edited on 11-12-2014 by BJ68]
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[*] posted on 10-12-2014 at 23:52


Omfg,the churces must be ban.On the walls there is saltpeter/saltpetre.And here,when I brought 35% H2O2, they said nothing.
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[*] posted on 11-12-2014 at 00:00


If you need KNO3,you can borrow my boots wich has got a pretty decoration(chicken sh*t).
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[*] posted on 11-12-2014 at 00:58


Both annexes from the PDF file.







27/f/nl
Analytical Chemistry.

Al, Br, Cu, Hg, S, C, Ag, Na, Pb, I, Cd, Ga, P, Mg, Fe, Be, Au, Bi, Si.
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[*] posted on 11-12-2014 at 01:54


Explained in English: Possession and use of any of the compounds, mentioned in Annex I, above the mentioned concentration will lead to a fine of at least EUR 500, with a maximum of EUR 20180. Repeated offences will lead to a fine of at most EUR 40375.
Use of any of the Annex I or Annex II compounds for making explosive mixtures or compounds will be punished with imprisonment for a period of at most 1 year.

It does not say when the minimum fine is given and when higher fines will be given.
Probably, the minimum of EUR 500 will be applied when it is found in small quantities and when there are no expected adverse activities and I expect there will be higher fines when people want to use the chemicals for illegal activities.

I interpret this as a total prohibition of making energetic compounds or mixes from basic chemicals like nitrates, or acids and so on. Even doing experiments, just for the fun of it, or for scientific interest, without any intents on terrorism, can bring you in great trouble.

And indeed, this is not just for Austria, regulation 98/2013 is for every EU country.




[Edited on 11-12-14 by woelen]




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BJ68
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[*] posted on 11-12-2014 at 22:09


Quote: Originally posted by woelen  

Even doing experiments, just for the fun of it, or for scientific interest, without any intents on terrorism, can bring you in great trouble.
And indeed, this is not just for Austria, regulation 98/2013 is for every EU country.
[Edited on 11-12-14 by woelen]



That´s the problem...even LEGAL experiments are forbidden....

There is another crunchpoint in the regulation....there are no minimum amounts mentioned this means that e.g. the test for potassium with perchloric acid is a offense against this regulation, because the potassium perchlorate which precipitated out, will be purer then 40%.

Additionally in Austria and Germany no permit for private citizens will be granted to obtain and use this chemicals in higher concentrations as in annex I or the exemptions in Art. 4 Number 3. Letter a) to c).
That´s a kind of total prohibition for private users.

Bj68




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[*] posted on 11-12-2014 at 22:29


Quote: Originally posted by kecskesajt  
Omfg,the churces must be ban.

Now there's an idea!




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[*] posted on 11-12-2014 at 22:57


So one has the freedom to practice religion, but not freedom to practice science... science IS my religion.

My heart goes out to my fellow European SM members :(:(:(:(:(:(:(




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[*] posted on 12-12-2014 at 03:40


Why they dont ban bleach?Everybody can make dangerous chlorine.I'll leave the EU when I have enough money.Also,I really don't know why they ban the chemicals,OTC chemicals will aviable everywhere(Hexamine:Fuel tablets,H2O2:dissefectant,Acetone:nail polish remover).Or the terrorists just rob a chemical supplier.To clean AN just dissolve the AN water,filter and crystalise.
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[*] posted on 12-12-2014 at 12:43


But we have better luck that we didn't live in Australia...Poor guys
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[*] posted on 12-12-2014 at 13:08


Worse than Texas, ouch. Sorry guys. How's Africa's chemistry laws?



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[*] posted on 12-12-2014 at 13:53


Sadly the 'terrorists' win again.

Here in the EU the young chemist can polish rocks with no problem.

Any enthusiast in Afghanistan has free access to all of the most advanced chemicals known to man (unexploded/captured Russian and American ordnance mostly) and Encouragement from his elders to make new stuff.

Tell me, where is the Long Term thinking in these EU laws ?




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[*] posted on 12-12-2014 at 14:16


Pffft, please do come to South Africa when you get fed up with all this BS.



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[*] posted on 27-12-2014 at 15:13


Argentina has banned some reagents like HCl, H2SO4, ketones, hydroxides, carbonates, sulphates, and solvents you could easily find in an American hardware store. Having one gram of these things is a reason for jail or some high fine if you're lucky. I don´t know about explosives and precursors.

Ethanol appears as a higly controlled substance. Do I have a reason to be arrested in my bathroom?
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[*] posted on 28-12-2014 at 07:03


Nail polish is being phased out with acetone in it, they are changing nail polish itself so you dont have to use acetone. Most aquarium test kits are being phased out as well because of the chemical reagents.
Chemistry as a hobby is pretty much dead after 2016 in the UK. You cant stock up with drain cleaner because buy a couple of bottles and they are obliged to report it as suspicious transaction.
Read the thread about my friend from school, the laws are not even fully in force yet and already he has been arrested and held without charge or representation just because he was trying to make a solid rocket motor for a toy car!
So what the fuck we going to do when in 10 years time we dont have rocket scientists coming through the universities? What happens to the fireworks industry when there is no one left to go work there as no one has experience even at school of energetic reactions?
But best of all lets look at the truth, this is meant to stop a certain religion and its beliefs from committing atrocities, how do they think these rules will deter them? Time in prison?? Do the rule makers even understand the nature of the problem, these are people who happily don a vest full of explosives and blow themselves up when they set the bombs off, how the fuck can you think a few rules will make any difference to anybody with the mindset that drives them to commit suicide with there bombs?
IED's are from the battle field, the people they are trying to stop wont pay any attention to the law or rules, many will actually make sure they get arrested first simply because they will have more freedom in prison and can learn much more far quicker about explosives in a prison than they can in a school these days.
But none of this is about the terror threat, this is purely about europe becoming one last super state under central control. And what about the cost? They cant afford to even watch 2000 people on a secret list that are considered high threat to UK safety, how many more high risk people will no longer be monitored because the money has been spent on locking up a 14 year old kid for making a solid rocket 100mm long for a toy car.
They cant pay the debt now so they cant tax people more because there isnt the money there to take.
All this will do is kill off interest in chemistry and science amongst young people, sooner or later there will be no more scientists. NASA dosnt make space ships anymore they want private companies to do it, but how they going to do that in say 30 years time? Science at school is really boring these days, my dad gave me a lesson in the kind of stuff they were allowed to do at school when he was my age.
I can see why he got interested in science, compared to what is allowed in a science lesson these days I can see a shortage of smart people coming through at some point.

Or maybe this is just a very very clever tax, after al l my mum actually registered a LTD company so I could keep making and selling soap, so yes I can have chemicals (or rather the company can) but the difference is now my meager earnings will be taxed and officially I cant work for the company.
I am lucky as I have great parents, but most people dont have the kind of parents I do.

In the end it might not matter anyway.............................. world war 3 could well be started very soon over a fucking film! The irony of it...Obama bitching about hacking after all the hacking the states did to other world leaders!! And yet he is willing to start a war over sony getting a film hacked LMFAO, so its ok for the states to hack other governments but NK must not hack a film company and must be dealt with!!!
Isnt it about time yu got rid of this idiot for the sake of the rest of the world? Sorry to all my american friends,I know it will upset many of you but lets face it America dosnt have a leg to stand on when it comes to hacking or withholding peoples human rights. The more I see that guy on TV the more I am convinced he is mentally ill




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[*] posted on 28-12-2014 at 08:10


Little ghost, as far as the whole cybersecurity thing goes, I'm pretty much sure that Barack Obama really has nothing to do with all the shit our CIA and NSA pull; I think those agencies have simply gotten bored with peace in their home country and decided to play cool little spy games just because they can. They've been there long before our president has. Another thing: Our president doesn't rule the country; all of these people in other countries seem to think he can do whatever he wants, when he's relatively powerless before our congress, which is both immensely out of touch with reality and corrupt as all hell, too.

Finally, how can you be mad that a psychotic autocratic regime that threatens worldwide nuclear war on a daily basis has had their internets taken away? Are you mad that the head of the Secret Police can't watch porn anymore? There's not really any WAR that can happen; There is compelling evidence that NK has nothing to threaten anyone with.




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[*] posted on 29-12-2014 at 05:10


Quote: Originally posted by No Tears Only Dreams Now  
Little ghost, as far as the whole cybersecurity thing goes, I'm pretty much sure that Barack Obama really has nothing to do with all the shit our CIA and NSA pull; I think those agencies have simply gotten bored with peace in their home country and decided to play cool little spy games just because they can. They've been there long before our president has. Another thing: Our president doesn't rule the country; all of these people in other countries seem to think he can do whatever he wants, when he's relatively powerless before our congress, which is both immensely out of touch with reality and corrupt as all hell, too.

Finally, how can you be mad that a psychotic autocratic regime that threatens worldwide nuclear war on a daily basis has had their internets taken away? Are you mad that the head of the Secret Police can't watch porn anymore? There's not really any WAR that can happen; There is compelling evidence that NK has nothing to threaten anyone with.


No my point was that the states is every bit as guilty as any of the countries it says do bad things.
I find it stupid in the least to make a film about a current head of state, you are all assuming that he dosnt have nuclear war heads, and yet the west continue to piss of Russia etc etc. It dosnt matter if he has the war heads or not, it should never of gone this far. As for BO saying that sony should of spoke to him first makes me think this guy is on one massive ego trip.
I like America alot and in the past have had some excellent presidents (Regan ending the cold war), but this guy you have now is a very dangerous idiot with a point to prove.
Anyway I dont have anything more useful to add to this so no point saying anything else, I like Americans but dislike the current guy in charge.




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[*] posted on 29-12-2014 at 08:00


If you think Reagan of all people was a good guy then I don't think the argument would get anywhere, anyway.



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[*] posted on 29-12-2014 at 08:10


Gentlemen, let us return to discussing the OP- Outside of where it directly intersects science, politics belongs in "Whimsy"

Politics in *Whimsy*... Yeah. Even the name seems so appropriate, some days.:(




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3. Mention anything you have learned from your target.
4. Only then are you permitted to say so much as a word of rebuttal or criticism.

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[*] posted on 29-12-2014 at 09:27


Yeah sorry politics is a road to no where sorry for my part in it! as for good guys in politics I dont actually think there is any is there?



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[*] posted on 31-12-2014 at 11:47


All I can say is, if that really is what will happen, little-ghost, then Europe will fall to communism, and the US will rise as the capitalist center of the world again, hurrah!
Actually, it'd probably be china :/




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[*] posted on 31-12-2014 at 15:31


Quote: Originally posted by The Volatile Chemist  
All I can say is, if that really is what will happen, little-ghost, then Europe will fall to communism, and the US will rise as the capitalist center of the world again, hurrah!
Actually, it'd probably be china :/
Don't even go there TVC.

On topic though, yeah, it's really disappointing that the EU would make these awful regulations. I mean, I'm in Texas and it's even looking pretty good now in comparison.




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[*] posted on 31-12-2014 at 19:37


Quote: Originally posted by The Volatile Chemist  
All I can say is, if that really is what will happen, little-ghost, then Europe will fall to communism, and the US will rise as the capitalist center of the world again, hurrah!
Actually, it'd probably be china :/


I would highly recommand you guys that are in parts of the world that have to deal with the EU to perhaps start thinking about. Rebeling. Peacfully first. least make your voice heard. I have many friends from Germent and England and it is insane. Some of the stuff that is sent to me honestly frieghtens me.

America has it's issues, but no where near what is portrayed in the media. A lot of it is fuax. What I see the UN and EU demanding of it's people is a little unseltting. the UN being nothing but a countryless group of thugs to begin with.

Perhaps it is time to reconcider some things?

[Edited on 1-1-2015 by gardul]




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