Cappy
Hazard to Self
Posts: 92
Registered: 27-3-2003
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Model Rocket Engine Propellant
Does anyone know what chemical(s) model rocket engine propellant is made from?
Also, what is the igniter tip made of?
[Edited on 30-3-2003 by Cappy]
|
|
|
Darkfire
Hazard to Others
Posts: 292
Registered: 3-1-2003
Location: California
Member Is Offline
Mood: Wondering
|
|
The answer to both could be black powder... that if you buy them. Or kno3 and sugar as the fuel if you make them.
CTR
|
|
|
Cappy
Hazard to Self
Posts: 92
Registered: 27-3-2003
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by Darkfire
The answer to both could be black powder...
CTR |
Uhhhh...is that conjecture or fact? You don't sound very confident. 
|
|
|
vulture
Forum Gatekeeper
Posts: 3330
Registered: 25-5-2002
Location: France
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
I think you've got quite an attitude mister.
People are trying to help you with something that could have been easily found on google. 
And yes, he's right.
One shouldn't accept or resort to the mutilation of science to appease the mentally impaired.
|
|
|
Cappy
Hazard to Self
Posts: 92
Registered: 27-3-2003
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Jeez guys, I was just teasing. 
I didn't mean to sound ungrateful for the response. I'll never make that mistake again.
|
|
|
Cappy
Hazard to Self
Posts: 92
Registered: 27-3-2003
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by R1ngm45t3r
After all your post wasnt exactly on the mental level of brain surgery either. |
I know. It's just rocket science. 
|
|
|
Cappy
Hazard to Self
Posts: 92
Registered: 27-3-2003
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Black powder is sensitive to electrostatic discharge. If one were going to extract the black powder from the model rocket engine, what sort of tools
could be used to safely cut open the cardboard tube and crush the powder? Is this unintelligent?
[Edited on 30-3-2003 by Cappy]
|
|
|
Polverone
Now celebrating 21 years of madness
Posts: 3186
Registered: 19-5-2002
Location: The Sunny Pacific Northwest
Member Is Offline
Mood: Waiting for spring
|
|
yes, this is unintelligent
The ghosts of ten thousand dead pyrotechnists will haunt you if you "make" pyrotechnics by scraping/cutting/sledgehammering materials out of
existing commercial devices. And if you aren't careful you may join them sooner than you expected. Just to clarify, Cappy, this is not intended
to be a forum for pyromania in general. It is a chemistry forum that permits the discussion of energetic materials. If you are really interested in
pyrotechnics, I suggest you check out rec.pyrotechnics on Usenet or a pyrotechnics mailing list. I think fireworks are wonderful but their creation
involves more art than chemistry. Chemically-oriented pyrotechnics inquiries are of course perfectly acceptable here.
|
|
|
Cappy
Hazard to Self
Posts: 92
Registered: 27-3-2003
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
This may sound like more effort/risk than it's worth, but I was thinking of getting the black powder so I could dissolve it in water, filter out
the carbon and sulfur, and use the potassium nitrate to make nitric acid when combined with sulfuric acid.
Is this not on topic? Sure, it would be easier to go buy some saltpeter, but I have model rocket engines that I'm not using.
|
|
|
chemoleo
Biochemicus Energeticus
Posts: 3005
Registered: 23-7-2003
Location: England Germany
Member Is Offline
Mood: crystalline
|
|
I would watch this if I was you. model rocket engines (but NOT new years eve rockets etc) are very powerful, and they contain ammoniumperchlorate.
now, just dont try to dissolve it in H2SO4 , 100% HClO4 might be rather dangerous to handle...
|
|
|
Polverone
Now celebrating 21 years of madness
Posts: 3186
Registered: 19-5-2002
Location: The Sunny Pacific Northwest
Member Is Offline
Mood: Waiting for spring
|
|
There are powerful model rocket engines that contain ammonium perchlorate, but the kind Cappy was talking about, the kind you'll find in many
ordinary stores selling supplies to hobbyists, are not like that. They use a black powder type composition in the rocket motor.
|
|
|
Mumbles
Hazard to Others
Posts: 436
Registered: 12-3-2003
Location: US
Member Is Offline
Mood: Procrastinating
|
|
The Estes composition is
71.79% KNO<sub>3</sub>
13.81% C
13.45% S
0.95% Dextrin
Most comercial engines will be similar to this. There should be 3 layers of composition and clay plugs. The large black/brown colored layer is the
composition above. The next layer greyish I believe is a delay composition, and the last, a darker grey I think, Is the ejection charge. It shoots
the parachute and nosecone off.
|
|
|
unicorn
Harmless
Posts: 15
Registered: 27-7-2003
Member Is Offline
Mood: Lamp-post
|
|
I used to make a lengthways cut a few layers deep into my engine's paper tube then unroll them, drop them in water to dissolve and filter. The
KNO3 looked slighty yellow when the water was evaporated, maybe this was due to the dextrin or sulphur, not sure about the solubilities of these. Now
I've found somewhere to buy my KNO3 and it sure don't look yellow!
|
|
|
Mumbles
Hazard to Others
Posts: 436
Registered: 12-3-2003
Location: US
Member Is Offline
Mood: Procrastinating
|
|
Definatly the dextrin. Its water soluble and yellowish. The sulfur perhaps to a very small extent. I know sulfur dissolves the tiniest bit in
water, but nothing to discolor anything, unless you were using hundreds of gallons of water for one engine.
I'm curious to why you cut open an engine and add water. It really is a bad source for KNO<sub>3</sub>. As you can see it will be
contaminated by dextrin everytime. Now I'm sure its possible to separate the two, but it would be more hassle than its worth.
|
|
|
unicorn
Harmless
Posts: 15
Registered: 27-7-2003
Member Is Offline
Mood: Lamp-post
|
|
I had to cut them open because they were the only source of KNO3 I could get hold of 'back in the day' as I believe it is said 
|
|
|
BASF
Hazard to Others
Posts: 282
Registered: 5-11-2002
Member Is Offline
Mood: hydrophilic
|
|
Hexamine-Aluminumnitrate-x-hydrate-adduct
A coordination-compound out of hexamine and aluminum-nitrate precipitates out of a solution in ethyl alcohol, if the two substances are brought
together.
This was patented, and the aluminum oxide generated is highly active(means it has a very big surface and could be used in various catalytic processes
and also, chromatography).
The price-performance-relation is not that good, but still, it is a compound quite simple to make.
(Anybody knows how to make aluminum nitrate? - I think so..)
I apologize for the fact i don´t have a link to the patent site...
HLR
[Edited on 31-7-2003 by BASF]
|
|
|
Iv4
Hazard to Others
Posts: 312
Registered: 28-5-2003
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
I'm thinking that was a possible rocket fuel comp? J/K.
They vary strongly but in general the stronger no name brands I've seen use a fair helping of ammonium perchlorate(the better ones probably use
what BASF described).Some suposedly used potsaium chlorate(not credible).
Though I got this from my grandad but I'm guessing it hasnt changed THAT much in like 20 years.
|
|
|
mjmrifai
Harmless
Posts: 3
Registered: 5-1-2005
Member Is Offline
Mood: Radioactive ...
|
|
Making Missiles
I need some urgent info on source code and the mechanism like embedding the software.
|
|
|
Joeychemist
Hazard to Others
Posts: 275
Registered: 16-9-2004
Location: Canada
Member Is Offline
Mood: Sedated
|
|
Wrong section
First, this is not the thread for such a qeustion as this is the energetic materials forum, you might want to try a more appropriate forum to ask this
qeustion.
Second,
|
|
|
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
