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Author: Subject: Acetaldehyde, the holy grail-method
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thumbup.gif posted on 4-4-2003 at 07:09
Acetaldehyde, the holy grail-method


I beg all of you, O N M Y KN E E S, to have a look at this site,

http://www.healthncure.com/awamimarkaz/education/members/NOT...

,and the stunningly simple method it provides for making acetaldehyde.

The formula of -i suppose so- calcium acetate and the coefficients of the equation are wrong, maybe the author was a bit unconcentrated....

Quote:
By the dry distillation of calsium salt of formic acid and calsium salt of carboxylic acid, aldehydes are obtained.

(corrected)
Ca(CH3COO)2 + Ca(COOH)2 ---> 2CH3CHO + 2CaCO3

So, maybe this would especially serve us poor western-europe backyard chemists with difficult access to acetaldehyde a method using relatively cheap starting substances such as acetic acid(probably the most expensive of the ingredients), CaO(used for construction, as y´all know) and calcium formate(CaO + H2O + formic acid; formic acid is widely used and sold in different cleaning products for removing CaCO3 residues......).

BTW, calcium formate or sodium formate seems to be possible to do with CO and Ca(OH)2 or NaOH at elevated temps and 0,8MPa.
If anybody´s interested, i can post the ref. here, although its not much...

HLR :P:P:P




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[*] posted on 4-4-2003 at 07:51


I had again a look on the page i dropped the link for, and noted most of the equations are fucked up.......it looks like some program-error along with bad concentration.

-So be careful, although i assume there are no errors in the text at least.




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[*] posted on 5-4-2003 at 10:14


Yes please post the formate process - 8 atm pressure? Would be doable I believe.

Very interesting. The availability of formic acid to remove CaCO3 residues is new to me - I up to now have seen mainly citric acid used for this....?

Is the formate process applicable for ammoniumformate in one step too?

[Edited on 5-4-2003 by Organikum]
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[*] posted on 5-4-2003 at 14:20


I have to excuse in advance it´s again from my german lexicon on my hard disk and really not "das gelbe vom Ei", although info on reaction temp and pressure is included.
It´s covered in the following two info-summaries of the lexicon on formic acid and sodium formate:

Ameisensäure

(Methansäure). HCOOH, CH2O2, MG. 46,02. Klare, flüchtige stechend riechende farblose Flüssigkeit; in wasserfreiem Zustand D. 1,22, Schmp. 8°, Sdp. 101°, Explosionsgrenzen in Luft 18–51 Vol.-%. A.-Dämpfe reizen stark Augen u. Atemwege, Kontakt mit der Flüssigkeit, auch in verdünnter Form, führt zu Verätzungen der Augen u. der Haut, MAK-Wert 5 ppm. WGK1, mit Wasser, Ethanol, Ether u. Glycerin ist A. in jedem Verhältnis mischbar; wäss. Lsg. sind üblicherweise 25%ig, D. ca. 1,06. A. ist die stärkste Carbonsäure, deren einfachster Vertreter sie ist; ihre Salze heißen Formiate. In der Reihe der Carbonsäuren nimmt A. eine Sonderstellung ein, da sie nicht nur als Säure, sondern auch als Aldehyd reagieren kann. Hierbei wirkt A. reduzierend, was zum Nachweis benutzt werden kann: z.B. Reduktion einer ammoniakalischen Silbernitrat-Lösung zu metallischem Silber, Entfärbung einer Kaliumpermanganat-Lösung, Reduktion einer Kaliumdichromat-Lösung zu Chrom(III)-Salz. Bei der Oxidation der A. entstehen Kohlendioxid u. Wasser, durch Einwirkung von Hitze od. mit Pt-Katalysatoren bei Raumtemp. wird A. zu CO2 u. H2 zersetzt, mit konz. H2SO4 entsteht CO. Mit tert. org. Basen, z.B. Trimethyl- u. Triethylamin bildet A. Additionsverb. die ausgezeichnete Reduktionsmittel darstellen , da die A. hier in aktivierter Form vorliegt. Über Synth. mit A. s. Lit. .

Vork.: In den Giftsekreten von Ameisen u. Laufkäfern (bilden in Bläschen 1,5–2 mg 75%ige A.), in Brennesseln u. Tannennadeln. Best. der Dämpfe von A. mit Dräger-Prüfröhrchen, Meßbereich 1–15 ppm.
Herst.: Ein Teil der benötigten A. fällt als Nebenprod. bei der Herst. von Essigsäure aus Leichtbenzin oder Butan an. Die gezielte Herst. von A. erfolgt techn. aus CO u. Methanol: der gebildete Ameisensäuremethylester wird durch Ammoniak in Formamid umgewandelt u. hieraus wird mit Schwefelsäure A. freigesetzt. Ein Verfahren dieser Art wurde von der BASF entwickelt u. bis 1982 techn. genutzt, dann aber durch eine Direkthydrolyse ersetzt. A. wird auch hergestellt aus NaOH u. Kohlenoxid (120°, 0,8 MPa) mit anschließender Zers. des Natriumformiats mit Schwefelsäure.

Verw.: Bei der Herst. von Formiaten, in der Textil- u. Lederindustrie zum Imprägnieren, Beizen u. Mattieren, in der Gerberei, als Koagulierungsmittel in der Kautschukindustrie, zum Ansäuern von Silofutter, zum Entkalken von Boilereinsätzen, zum Desinfizieren von Bier- u. Weinfässern u. dgl. A. ist erlaubter Konservierungsstoff (E236), auch in Form der Natrium- (E237) u. Calcium-Salze (E238) für Lebensmittel. Medizin. dient sog. Ameisenspiritus (1 Tl. A., 14 Tl. Ethanol u. 5 Tl. Wasser) als Antirheumatikum.

Geschichtl.: A. wurde schon 1670 von Fischer beobachtet u. 1749 von Markgraf durch Dest. von Ameisen ziemlich rein hergestellt.
Lit.: 1 Angew. Chem. 82, 73–77 (1970). 2 Synthetica 1, 36–42.
allg.: Beilstein EIV 2, 3–19 ï Blaue Liste, S. 26 ï Brauer, Gefahrenstoff-Sensorik, Landsberg: Ecomed 1988 ï DAB 7, 313–315 ï Gmelin, Syst.-Nr. 14, Kohlenstoff, Tl. C4, 1975, S. 48–120 ï Hommel Nr. 25 ï Houben-Weyl E5, 194 ï Kirk-Othmer (3.) 11, 251–258 ï Knauer, Chemie in wasserfreier Ameisensäure, Braunschweig: Vieweg 1963 ï Lück, Chemische Lebensmittelkonservierung, S. 133–139, Berlin: Springer 1977 ï Snell-Ettre 13, 117–138 ï Ullmann (4.) 7, 362ff. ï Weissermel u. Arpe, Industrielle Organische Chemie, S. 45f., Weinheim: Verl. Chemie 1988 ï Winnacker-Küchler (4.) 6, 77.


E formic acid
F acide formique
I acido formico
S ácido fórmico
Z 2915.11
CAS 64-18-6
G 8

Quelle: CD Römpp Chemie Lexikon – Version 1.0, Stuttgart/New York: Georg Thieme Verlag 1995

Natriumformiat

HCOONa, CHNaO2, MG. 68,02. Farblose, zerfließliche, bitter-salzig schmeckende, rhomb. Prismen od. Tafeln, D. 1,9, Schmp. 253°, lösl. in Wasser, WGK1. N. wirkt reduzierend u. geht bei raschem Erhitzen auf 440° unter Wasserstoff-Abspaltung in Natriumoxalat über.
Herst.: Durch Einwirkung von Kohlenmonoxid auf gepulvertes NaOH unter Druck od. aus Natriumsulfat, Calciumhydroxid u. CO im wäss. System.
Verw.: Zur Herst. von Ameisen- u. Oxalsäure od. Natriumdithionit, in der Textil- u. Leder-Ind. zum Beizen, Imprägnieren u. Quellen, Fällungsmittel für Edelmetalle, Extraktionsmittel zur Best. von Phosphat in Bodenproben. N. ist als Lebensmittelzusatzstoff zugelassen (E237) u. wird als Konservierungsmittel verwendet.

Lit.: Beilstein EIV 2, 14 ï Giftliste ï Gmelin, Syst.-Nr. 21, Na, 1928, S. 806–811, Erg.-Bd. S. 1398–1403 ï Hager 6a, 91 ï Liste der zugelassenen Lebensmittelzusatzstoffe (Fundstellenliste) vom 15. Januar 1985, Bundesanzeiger Nr. 43A vom 2.3.85 ï Merck-Index (11.), Nr. 8568 ï Ullmann (4.) 7, 370 ï Vollmer, Lebensmittelführer 2, S. 250, Stuttgart: Thieme 1990 ï Winnacker-Küchler (3.) 4, 88f.; (4.) 6, 78f.


E sodium formate
F formiate de sodium
I formiato di sodio
S formiato de sodio
Z 2915.12
CAS 141-53-7

Quelle: CD Römpp Chemie Lexikon – Version 1.0, Stuttgart/New York: Georg Thieme Verlag 1995


After what i have understood from the text, it should be possible to make both sodium formate and calcium formate with this method.




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[*] posted on 5-4-2003 at 14:29


BTW, i am at least sure i found formic acid in a product called "WC-Ente" from Henkel for the toilet.
I am fearing the content of formic acid is not high, since formic acid is said to be highly effective even in dilute form, anyway the product would be too expensive.
In the german text above is also mentioned that formic acid is used to clean and as a disinfectant for wine-barrels.




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[*] posted on 5-4-2003 at 18:22


Formic acid got a bad reputation because it was widely used in the production of amphetamines by the Leukard-Wallach reaction in the 70´s and 80´s.
It is easy made from methanol but this is not OTC in the EU any more (if you lke speedway or icespeedway racing you have no problems...).

The NaOH + CO process is new for me and if only 8atm´s are required no real problem. No more parameters on this, time, temperatures?
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[*] posted on 5-4-2003 at 21:06


Sodium hydroxide to sodium formate, 6-8 atm of CO, 120-150 C in autoclaves, production is quantative, industrially this used to be done with producer gas.

Ive been looking into pyrolisis reactions for some time.

Calcium (OH) benzoate to benzene.
Calcium benzoate to benzophenone With some benzene).
Calcium acetate to acetone.
Zinc formate to formaldehyde.
Sodium formate to sodium oxalate.

Crossed reactions are possible, but impure, thus calcium acetate-benzoate gives mixtures of acetone, acetophenone, benzophenone.

Its quite possible calcium (or maybe zinc would be better?) acetate-formate would give acetaldehyde as well as acetone, CO, CO2, oxalates would probably form to give more exotic products in small amounts, but yes theory is fine.

Likewise on that page the theory seems fine even is quite a few of the equations are dodgy.

Conc formic acid is sold here in small bottles for descaling kettles, an act that produces calcium formate. Apropriate somehow, if not fantastically cheap.
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[*] posted on 6-4-2003 at 21:55


Formic acid is easily made by reaction of anhydrous ( or nearly so; it is sufficient to heat 85% glycerine to 170 C ) glycerine with crystalline oxalic acid. The glycerine is regenerated so if you can get oxalic acid this is an excellent method.
The glycerine is placed in a retort and oxalic acid is added in crystalline form. it is then heated and formic acid and CO2 is liberated and distilled off ( along with any water of crystallization in the oxalic acid ). Periodically, more oxalic is added while heating is continued. You can go on like this almost indefinately. I think an exact describtion can be found at rhodium or the organic synthesis website.
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[*] posted on 7-4-2003 at 13:11


Thanks Mikrotek and Marvin!
The information on the formic acid from CO and NaOH and the further possibilities of the process - superb!
NaOH and CO are much easier to come by for me as oxalic acid, which has some other worthy uses also, so I won´t waste it on formic if NaOH and CO do the job quantitativly. (always nice - no waste).

Makes my day a better day. :D
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