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Author: Subject: It finally happened, the police showed up
j_sum1
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[*] posted on 14-9-2015 at 20:58


Compatible with 24/29 (at least unless your glassware has a bit of a lip). I just felt that I would get a more solid seal more easily. Also it has proved advantageous in that the longer contact surface means it is more forgiving in the case of a chip or breakage.

It is to be expected but even though I chose pretty carefully, there are still items that I would like to add to the kit. I can see that the 500mL RBFs are going to be the most used flasks. I bought some stainless steel keck clips. I really could use some traps. A parallel joint distillation adapter will help me to get full value from my graham condenser. I bought a thermometer adapter that will double as a cold finger when necessary. (Push some butane from a can into that thing and it stays nice and cool. I used this process for a sublimation the other day.) I made a lab jack. I can see a need for some glass tubing and spare thermometer adapters to fit them into. There is always stuff. But at least my lab is slowly shaping up. It has taken a year to get this far though.
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[*] posted on 14-9-2015 at 21:41


I purchased the same thermometer adapter in 24/29 and I'm glad I did because the one that came with the kit is rubbish, because I have started out with a 24/29 kit I'll most likely stick with that joint size, it would be to costly to change now. my last purchase was a magnetic stirrer/hotplat off Ebay for $250 and next week I'm picking up a used fume cupboard, I cant wait to finally be able to work indoors.

Here is the stirrer


DSC_1241.jpg - 1.6MB
I don't know why it's sideways
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[*] posted on 14-9-2015 at 22:30


Nice stirrer. Colour me envious.
What kind of beaker is that? Looks like a beer mug.
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[*] posted on 14-9-2015 at 22:49


it's just a 1000ml plunger type coffee pot, dime a dozen. I mostly use it for filtering large volume.
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[*] posted on 23-9-2015 at 18:58


Funny enough this story is pretty common nowadays. I've had the piggies show up at my door with exactly the same story and a photocopy of an X-ray of my neatly packaged glassware courtesy of Aus customs. They only wanted to see it was not being used for meth production. They didn't come as soon as it arrived either as though they were waiting for me to whip up a quick batch of blue and bust me red handed... Lesson: if you don't want them at your door source local products. Although now many suppliers require an EUA stating the glass won't be used illegally and these do get handed to authorities anyway. Chinese glass is inferior . After a few batches of nitric there is was a hairline crack in the top of the 1l RBF near the mouth.



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[*] posted on 24-9-2015 at 01:21


Glad it went well for you too Neon. That week delay is commonplace and, gotta hand it to them, kinda clever. "Oh hey no this glassware box just turned up today.. i was going to ah... give it to my grandson.. for a display... yeah." Wait a week until the iodine is on reflux and bam. But another somewhat positive story thanks Neon.
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[*] posted on 25-9-2015 at 06:31


Well, I'm feeling the heat now. Nobody has showed up at my door, but recently, in my area, the police have begun a serious crack down on drugs. You see them going from house to house in camouflage uniforms, black masks and helmets, bullet proof vests, and assault rifles, making arrests and searching homes. Sirens are blaring every now and then, but they've been doing it mostly quietly so they can sneak up. I'm sure most of its being done at night as well, where I don't see it (but, having literally seen them walking up and down the side walk of a city block where their operation was going on, I don't think they care). Since I know someone in local law enforcement I asked him, and he confirmed that this is happening, and that its actually the joint effort of local police, state police, and departments form around the area.

I don't make illegal drugs, but their is the energetics factor, and the fact that I doubt any of the police officers around here (and in this operation), would take kindly to "its a home lab!", since in their minds lab means meth. Besides, I would really blame them if they busted down the floor, found my glass ware and arrested me. After all, they've been working nonstop combing the whole town like this. I mean, I I were one of them, I wouldn't really care about "stupid excuses" while being that tired.
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[*] posted on 25-9-2015 at 10:55


Pre-empt it and go and talk to the police before they bust your door down.




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[*] posted on 4-10-2015 at 09:53


My friend, you are very naive.

The police act like your their friend because they want you to co-operate. They had a warrant in their back pocket because they will use force if necessary.

They probably had an audio recording or body camera on which you did not notice. In any case ever wonder why cops always do things with at least two officers present? It is for evidential purposes in court.

Trust me, even if they do not do a follow-up raid, your name is added to a database somewhere and your name will never be taken off it. And there is no positive outcome from being on that database.
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[*] posted on 4-10-2015 at 10:12


Quote: Originally posted by Zombie  
100% on board w/ Blogfast.

What is in the US constitution, and without a doubt Aus, Great Brit, and MOST other free nations???

Innocent until PROVEN guilty. Suspicion of impending loitering is NOT a crime. Possession of Lab Glass is NOT a crime (in this case).
Grounds for a warrant? I would go ahead, and ask to see this warrant today, and SUE THE SHORTS OFF OF THEM!!! As has been said here already. You're talking 100g's at least to settle.


Quaint ideas of innocent until proven guilty and "free nations" but the US has the highest incarceration rates in the world.

And the reality of the innocent until proven guilty concept is that it isn't true. Most governments have the power to imprison under the catch-all term "security", some of them indefinitely without trial.

Also, read up on the Open Letter Series: Working with Dstl where a former Dstl scientist with an ongoing research contract and security clearance got backstabbed by Dstl/police/Crown Prosecution Service. E.g.

http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=63837

At the scientist's remand hearing whose transcript I have reviewed, the police/CPS basically lied to the magistrates that they found bombs in the scientist's house. The magistrates of course assume the police/CPS are telling the truth, and approved custody. Only later when the forensics lab showed they were not bombs, was the scientist released from prison. But everyone has forgotten the lies the police/CPS peddled to the magistrates to approve custody.
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[*] posted on 8-10-2015 at 03:11


Quote: Originally posted by Zombie  
I don't want to ring the dinner bell but I'm sure you all know that LEO's of the world read these forums.

There's one thing I can't wrap my head around. IF glass-ware is NOT illegal there how on earth could they get a warrant?

That is a presumption of Guilt.
They can suspect anything, and everything under the sun but they have to have legal grounds for a warrant. NOT suspicion.

Either the cop lied or your jurisdiction has a rouge judge. For some reason I suspect both... Color me Jade (ed)

Glad to hear it went well, unless they gave you a lap top, and you're really posting from prison... Knock twice (if you are in prison), and we'll bust you out. ;)

In the UK you are utterly wrong, we have many laws that when arrested you are arrested on suspicion of [ insert crime here], in my own experience not very long ago after school, I was out in the park with some friends, they were kicking a ball about and I had to watch as I wasnt feeling great.
As you may know I take drugs for a serious illness and on the day I had in my wallet 2 pills of oxycontin (40mg each) and 2 x 5mg Diazepam (I can fit at times so also carry a rectal diazepam tube), I didnt have them in the main packet as its bulky and could make me a target for mugging (oxycontin is a bit of a hit at the moment here), So I take the label with my name on and put what I think I might need in a baggy and stuff in my wallet.
Two police approached us and asked to search us, I saw no reason why not and agreed. BIG MISTAKE, I was arrested on SUSPICION of possessing a class A drug or controlled substance.
I was lucky as it was around 6pm by the time I got the police station and the duty doctor was called and there in 15 mins.
My parents were informed and also turned up at roughly the same time.
The really silly thing was they brought my main box of pills that now has no label on as I carry it with me (cut off with the box label). So duty doc confirms the tablets by looking in the BNF and being scotland he calls my GP (doctor) who confirms yes I am prescribed the tablets.
BUT I have the box with no label on confiscated from my parents as it dosnt have a prescription label!!! I was released with no charge after roughly an hour. So in the UK we have loads of offenses that start with the phrase 'On Suspicion Of' no proof needed to be arrested, no proof needed to be charged for many things, as some things you can be charged with include.....
You are charged with the offense of being suspected of carrying/possessing...... They leave it to the courts to sort out now.




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[*] posted on 27-11-2015 at 04:49


Quote: Originally posted by Little_Ghost_again  
So in the UK we have loads of offenses that start with the phrase 'On Suspicion Of' no proof needed to be arrested, no proof needed to be charged for many things, as some things you can be charged with include.....
You are charged with the offense of being suspected of carrying/possessing...... They leave it to the courts to sort out now.


It's a bit more complicated than that.

I can't think of a single offence that is purely a "suspicion" offence. You are arrested on suspicion because arrest is part of the investigation process in the UK. It requires actual or suspected involvement in a crime AND reasonable grounds for believing the arrest is necessary.

Being arrested also triggers certain safeguards, including time limits for detention etc. Being arrested can sometimes be beneficial both to you (because of the protection the status brings) and to the police (it gives them further powers including warrantless searches).

You wouldn't get charged on sus, The charge would be for the actual commission of the offence - because, after all, the allegation is that you did actually commit it.

Whether or not you are charged is a decision made by a different body called the CPS. They will only charge you if certain conditions are met: likelihood of a successful prosecution and whether prosecution would be in the public interest. If there's no evidence, they are not going to charge you. Heck, if they can't even show a prima facie case, they're not going to make it past half time anyway and the prosecutor will find the judge tearing them a new arsehole for bringing it to court.
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[*] posted on 5-12-2015 at 19:54


Ok. I got my visit today. I was at the movies with my family and my FIL answered the door. They said that they would come back and turned up just at the same time that I did.

I took them directly to my lab, It was a mess since it is a shared space with storage, gardening, paint and Christmas decorations. I haven't done any significant chemistry for a few weeks but have made some acquisitions and so there was crap all over the bench.

The "offending" glassware was still in its bubble wrap.

I was really unimpressed with how little they wanted to look at. They wanted to see that package and nothing else. They asked about the disassembled battery and erlenmeyers on the bench and that was it. They didn't even look at my chemicals or any of the other significant quantity of glassware that was in boxes on the shelves.

They accepted my story on why I had a lab and informed me that they would take a note of my details so that if I had any future glassware orders I would not get another visit.

I made them sign my lab book though. I figured that I should at least get a souvenir.

[Edit]
The whole visit was less than five minutes.
One of the cops walked off with a sizable chunk of dog poo on his shoe. I guess everyone gets a souvenir!

[Edited on 6-12-2015 by j_sum1]

2015-12-06 13.28.36.jpg - 248kB




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[*] posted on 5-12-2015 at 20:09


That's nice to hear j_sum. In my county home drug labs(for methamphetamine) are everywhere. There are more estimated drug labs here than any other county in this area of the country. I really need to start a lab notebook to hopefully help when the police finally get around to me.



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[*] posted on 5-12-2015 at 20:43


Quote: Originally posted by TheAlchemistPirate  
That's nice to hear j_sum. In my county home drug labs(for methamphetamine) are everywhere. There are more estimated drug labs here than any other county in this area of the country. I really need to start a lab notebook to hopefully help when the police finally get around to me.


If you like gardening better then meth, come up here to canada
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[*] posted on 5-12-2015 at 22:22


Quote: Originally posted by Hawkguy  

If you like gardening better then meth, come up here to canada


I'm not sure what you meant by this. I don't make any kind of illegal drugs and don't ever plan to. I meant that there are labs around our area that do and I might be seen as part of that group. Nevermind if you meant something else.




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[*] posted on 7-12-2015 at 01:26


Good to see another happy ending story, thanks for sharing jsum_1! Sounds like virtually identical events as to me, good to know the police are consistent across the different states.
The writing in the lab notebook was a great idea, I would have asked that if I'd thought of it.
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[*] posted on 7-12-2015 at 01:45


Yeah. I figured some time ago that the lab journal was my symbol of legitimacy. It was always my plan to get them to sign it if they turned up. Actually, it is better than that. I have the business card of the senior detective constable and I glued that in as well. Now, if ever I get neighbours asking questions or any issues of any kind, I can pull out the journal and show that the police have checked out my lab.

Besides, it is kind of cool to have an entry like that in the journal. :)




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[*] posted on 2-1-2016 at 10:06


Quote: Originally posted by iExplore  
Quote: Originally posted by Little_Ghost_again  
So in the UK we have loads of offenses that start with the phrase 'On Suspicion Of' no proof needed to be arrested, no proof needed to be charged for many things, as some things you can be charged with include.....
You are charged with the offense of being suspected of carrying/possessing...... They leave it to the courts to sort out now.


It's a bit more complicated than that.

I can't think of a single offence that is purely a "suspicion" offence. You are arrested on suspicion because arrest is part of the investigation process in the UK. It requires actual or suspected involvement in a crime AND reasonable grounds for believing the arrest is necessary.

Being arrested also triggers certain safeguards, including time limits for detention etc. Being arrested can sometimes be beneficial both to you (because of the protection the status brings) and to the police (it gives them further powers including warrantless searches).

You wouldn't get charged on sus, The charge would be for the actual commission of the offence - because, after all, the allegation is that you did actually commit it.

Whether or not you are charged is a decision made by a different body called the CPS. They will only charge you if certain conditions are met: likelihood of a successful prosecution and whether prosecution would be in the public interest. If there's no evidence, they are not going to charge you. Heck, if they can't even show a prima facie case, they're not going to make it past half time anyway and the prosecutor will find the judge tearing them a new arsehole for bringing it to court.



Sorry missed this!

No most offences are charged as on suspicion of, the reason being the legal presumption is still (just about anyway) INNOCENT until proven guilty. But its even more slightly complicated, forget my case as its in Scotland and different again.

But in England there is Illegal and Unlawful (we do legal shit in school in a class called citizenship!!), only 4 crimes are Unlawful they include Murder and theft, I forget the others, These are crimes, ALL other offenses are statutory instruments and therefore not unlawful but illegal.

So if your done for Murder you would be charged with something like..... you are charged with the offense that you did unlawfully murder XyZ on the [insert date] blah blah blah.

With other crimes you are charged with...... You are charged on suspicion that contravened section (whatever) blah blah. As I said you cant be charged as guilty as you havnt gone to court yet, so it has to be on suspicion of or sometimes the wording is slightly different but same kind of thing.

Otherwise you could walk into a magistrates court and appeal if found guilty simply based on the fact that you were presumed guilty even before the hearing.

Scotland is even worse and way more complicated.




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[*] posted on 2-1-2016 at 17:46


In my case, since I was pretty prepared for a police peekaboo, the lab was free of any offending material. I dont make drugs, but stuff like strong acids, iodine, or bleach can often be taken the wrong way. Anyway. They spent more than half the time looking for a 'second lab', a smaller, more criminal setup. Apparently that isnt uncommon, and theres been recent cases up here where after a preliminary inspection, a second setup with bombs or drugs has been found. Just found it odd that them poking around my bedroom, washroom, etc, took time away from the inspection of the actual lab in which they could have potentially compiled evidence.

Also, when you let the first two guys in, and they talk to you in the garage, two more that I didn't know about also came in, and searched the house upstairs. Well, not like a top to bottom strip search of the hous . But they would walk around and look in drawers, closets, under laundry, etc, pretending to loiter, or be lost in the house. It gives the impression of teenagers who attempt to inconspicuously browse a corner store, whilst stealing.

[Edited on 3-1-2016 by Hawkguy]

[Edited on 3-1-2016 by Hawkguy]
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[*] posted on 2-1-2016 at 17:56


Quote: Originally posted by TheAlchemistPirate  
Quote: Originally posted by Hawkguy  

If you like gardening better then meth, come up here to canada


I'm not sure what you meant by this. I don't make any kind of illegal drugs and don't ever plan to. I meant that there are labs around our area that do and I might be seen as part of that group. Nevermind if you meant something else.


I was joking that if you don't like hard drugs, "chemicals", many Canadian farmers offer a 'greener' alternative to treat your ailments. Yeah I know you don't make drugs, and I see what you're saying. The cooks, no matter how small a portion of the home chemist population, give all of us a bad name.

[Edited on 3-1-2016 by Hawkguy]
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[*] posted on 2-1-2016 at 18:05


I do most of my work in a public co-op type location where I have actually met and held conversations with FBI agents. A couple of days ago, I left some flasks, adapters, and condensers out to make them available to the public, and when I got in yesterday, I discovered that someone had been researching how to make ecstasy on one of our computers.... Ironically, this discovery occurred as I was discussing chemistry with one of our members who actually is a member of law enforcement. I obviously don't have the necessary chemicals for that, and I don't know who it was (nor do I really care--probably a high school student), but I hope whoever it was enjoys the selection of small test tubes that will be available in the future.
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[*] posted on 2-1-2016 at 18:09


Quote: Originally posted by JJay  
I do most of my work in a public co-op type location where I have actually met and held conversations with FBI agents. A couple of days ago, I left some flasks, adapters, and condensers out to make them available to the public, and when I got in yesterday, I discovered that someone had been researching how to make ecstasy on one of our computers.... Ironically, this discovery occurred as I was discussing chemistry with one of our members who actually is a member of law enforcement. I obviously don't have the necessary chemicals for that, and I don't know who it was (nor do I really care--probably a high school student), but I hope whoever it was enjoys the selection of small test tubes that will be available in the future.


That was one of the most beautiful things I have read on the forum today, your response that is. Is this lika a community center, or educational thing attached to a corporation/ university?

By the way, I can beat your example of high schooler stupidity. At my school, some grade 11 or 12s were doing a lab in the Bio room. I dont know why they didnt turn off the bunsen burner gas, or why it wasnt lighted in the first place, but a hazmat unit had to come and pull two unconscious kids out of the room. They were taken to a hospital. What geniuses.

[Edited on 3-1-2016 by Hawkguy]
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[*] posted on 2-1-2016 at 18:16


It's a hackerspace. We have some university affiliations, but it is open to the community.

We have been talking about putting in barbed fittings for natural gas, but I think it's a better idea to hook them to propane tanks.

[Edited on 3-1-2016 by JJay]
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[*] posted on 2-1-2016 at 20:12


Bravo j_sum. My LOGBOOK has saved me twice when the coppers show up "looking for the meth lab". Nevada and California. I *sigh* expect them here in Arkansas.

*edit* Folks, a BOUND notebook written in INK is important two-fold.

1) As drunk as you are, if you scrawl it all down you can repeat it, even if it is a S.N.A.F.U.

2) The Police Clan Lab team told me, "You guys that keep notes ain't the ones we have to worry about."

[Edited on 1-3-2016 by arkoma]




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