technologist
Harmless
Posts: 21
Registered: 1-6-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Sodium Bisulphite
Can I make Sodium Bisulfite as below
Na2CO3 + 2 SO2 + H2O ----> 2NaHSO3 + CO2
What are the conditions required to make this reaction happen.
|
|
|
hodges
National Hazard
Posts: 525
Registered: 17-12-2003
Location: Midwest
Member Is Offline
|
|
I would think this would work given that H2SO3 is a stronger acid than H2CO3. You would simply bubble SO2 through a Na2CO3 solution until no more was
absorbed then evaporate the solution to get the NaHSO3.
Hodges
|
|
|
woelen
Super Administrator
Posts: 7977
Registered: 20-8-2005
Location: Netherlands
Member Is Offline
Mood: interested
|
|
This reaction indeed works, first you get sodium sulfite, then you'll get bisulfite. You can't, however, make NaHSO3 as a solid. When the solution is
evaporated then the solid Na2S2O5 remains (sodium metabisulfite). The bisulfite ion only exists in solution, in solid form, it looses water and
metabisulfite is formed.
|
|
|
technologist
Harmless
Posts: 21
Registered: 1-6-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Thanks to all.
Can I request any specific condition to me maintained during this reaction e.g. Temp & pH especially.
|
|
|
woelen
Super Administrator
Posts: 7977
Registered: 20-8-2005
Location: Netherlands
Member Is Offline
Mood: interested
|
|
Do as hodges suggested. Temp & pH not really important, just add SO2 until no more dissolves and heat, and you'll get Na2S2O5.
|
|
|
chloric1
International Hazard
Posts: 1070
Registered: 8-10-2003
Location: GroupVII of the periodic table
Member Is Offline
Mood: Stoichiometrically Balanced
|
|
metabisulfite
I read that sodium metabisulfite heated gives dry sulfur dioxide gas. Unfortunately, this is not correct. You actually get an auto redux reaction
forming sulfate and sulfide. The sulfide was strongly alkaline and at the high temperature, the test tube cracked . This is just FYI.
Fellow molecular manipulator
|
|
|
cral
Harmless
Posts: 1
Registered: 27-7-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Is there a feasible route to produce Sodium Bisulphite through reduction of, for instance, Sodium Bisulphate?
|
|
|
woelen
Super Administrator
Posts: 7977
Registered: 20-8-2005
Location: Netherlands
Member Is Offline
Mood: interested
|
|
Doing that in an economical way is very difficult. Sulfate (and bisulfate) ion is very inert with respect to reduction. ALthough it has sulphur in its
highest oxidation state, fairly extreme conditions are needed for its reduction (e.g. very high temperature, as part of concentrated sulphuric acid,
or in combination with really strong reductors). Under these conditions, the reaction is not clean at all. Besides formation of (bi)sulfite and/or
SO2, which is desired, you also get all kinds of side reactions, which result in formation of sulfides (or H2S) and free sulphur or even other more
complicated oxo-sulphur ions. The result will be crap.
|
|
|
garage chemist
chemical wizard
Posts: 1803
Registered: 16-8-2004
Location: Germany
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
When sodium or calcium sulfate is heated with an excess of charcoal powder to 800- 1000°C under exclusion of air, it is reduced quantitatively to the
sulfide. This is an industrial method fr the production of sodium sulfide. The Na2S is separated from the excess charcoal by leaching with water and
the Na2S is crystallized as the nonahydrate.
However, sulfite can not be made that way.
|
|
|
bbartlog
International Hazard
Posts: 1139
Registered: 27-8-2009
Location: Unmoored in time
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Quote: Originally posted by woelen  | | Doing that in an economical way is very difficult. Sulfate (and bisulfate) ion is very inert with respect to reduction. ALthough it has sulphur in its
highest oxidation state, fairly extreme conditions are needed for its reduction (e.g. very high temperature, as part of concentrated sulphuric acid,
or in combination with really strong reductors). Under these conditions, the reaction is not clean at all. Besides formation of (bi)sulfite and/or
SO2, which is desired, you also get all kinds of side reactions, which result in formation of sulfides (or H2S) and free sulphur or even other more
complicated oxo-sulphur ions. The result will be crap. |
Mostly, I think you're right. Especially with respect to sodium sulfate/bisulfate. However, I did find this interesting patent while looking for other
information on ammonium bisulfate: http://www.freepatentsonline.com/3835218.html
Basically, it claims that with 1-5% weight of one of a wide range of catalysts (e.g. CuSO4), you can get the net reaction
3NH4HSO4 ➝ N2 ↑ + 5H2O + 2SO2 ↑ + NH4HSO3
at temperatures of 350-450C. Actually temperatures as low as 140C are mentioned but I'm thinking the reaction probably doesn't proceed at any
appreciable rate at temperatures that low; anyway, while 350C is not *terribly* kitchen-friendly it's not much worse than the melting point of lead.
The main problem I see with this is that you're not getting a lot of sulfite for your sulfate; unless I had something useful I could do with the SO2
being given off I don't think I'd find this interesting. However, as already pointed out, you could use the SO2 to make sulfite via a different path.
And of course the patent could be BS.
|
|
|
starman
Hazard to Others
Posts: 318
Registered: 5-7-2008
Location: Western Australia
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Is there a simple method for producing sodium sulfite from the metabisulfite?(without using the metabisulfite as a source of SO2)
Chemistry- The journey from the end of physics to the beginning of life.(starman)
|
|
|
woelen
Super Administrator
Posts: 7977
Registered: 20-8-2005
Location: Netherlands
Member Is Offline
Mood: interested
|
|
Simply add some NaOH to a solution of Na2S2O5. Do this until the solution becomes slightly alkaline. At that point you will have fairly pure Na2SO3 in
solution with just a little bisulfite left.
|
|
|
starman
Hazard to Others
Posts: 318
Registered: 5-7-2008
Location: Western Australia
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Thanks Woelen,I think I recall a sulfite solution is somewhere near pH 9.
Chemistry- The journey from the end of physics to the beginning of life.(starman)
|
|
|
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
