Darkblade48
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New Canadian Chemical Regulations
Taken from:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20060812.BO...
| Quote: |
Strict regulations proposed for nine explosive chemicals
Canadian Press
OTTAWA -- The federal government plans to tightly regulate nine chemicals it says can be used by terrorists to build bombs.
Proposed regulations under the Explosives Act, made public yesterday, would require companies selling the restricted materials to register with the
government, keep meticulous inventory records and notify police if they believe a customer will use the materials to build bombs.
"The Toronto-area terrorist plot to use ammonium nitrate to build bombs, which was foiled in early June of 2006, is a strong indication that
regulatory controls are urgently needed to ensure that restricted components are protected from future attempts of acquisition for terrorist and
criminal use," a release from Natural Resources Canada says.
"A number of chemicals that are neither defined nor regulated as explosives can be readily used by terrorists and criminals to fabricate bombs."
The new list of chemicals was drawn from a 1998 U.S. National Research Council report that identified the same nine ingredients that can be readily
adapted as explosives. The chemicals include ammonium nitrate and concentrated forms of hydrogen peroxide, the chemical the alleged British terrorists
apparently planned to use this week to down U.S. airplanes.
Hydrogen peroxide is the only chemical on the list readily available to consumers in drug stores, as a disinfectant, but at far weaker concentrations
that would not be covered by the proposed regulations.
Department spokeswoman Viviane Dewyse said the regulations have been under development for two years and were not prompted by the Toronto terrorist
plot or by this week's British terrorism arrests.
"This is not linked with the events of Thursday," she said in an interview.
Companies selling the nine chemicals will have to maintain lists of workers who have access to the restricted materials and have secure storage
facilities. They must also closely examine a purchaser's identification. Detailed sales records are also required.
The new regulations would be applied to sales of even small quantities, Ms. Dewyse said.
"There is no minimum, so it would be whoever sells any of these components, whatever the quantity is."
Interested parties have 90 days to comment on the proposed rules, which are expected to be in place by the end of the year.
The proposed list of restricted chemicals: -- ammonium nitrate in solid form, at a concentration of 28 per cent to 34 per cent nitrogen -- nitric acid
at a concentration of at least 68 per cent -- nitromethane -- hydrogen peroxide at a concentration of at least 30 per cent -- potassium nitrate --
sodium nitrate -- potassium chlorate -- sodium chlorate -- potassium perchlorate. |
Of particular interest is the fact that they are now completely restricting all the nitrates as well as chlorates. Anyone purchasing these compounds
will have to be reported to the government regardless of quantities purchased.
It seems as if Canada is starting to restrict more chemicals (much like parts of the US). Though it was said in the article that Thursday's (alleged)
terrorist plot had nothing to with these restrictions, I feel that if it hadn't been for those events, the restrictions might have been placed with
less haste.
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Polverone
Now celebrating 21 years of madness
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I see it's time for Canadian pyros to get familiar with the chlorate cell. Are all of your instant cold packs going to employ urea from now on, or
will they ignore the small amounts of ammonium nitrate they use? If the latter, that could still be a viable way for relatively small scale hobbyists
to obtain NH4NO3 and produce other nitrates.
PGP Key and corresponding e-mail address
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not_important
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Will be fun, given that a lot of 30-35% H2O2 is used in the food industry. It's also going to hit the hydroponics people, which means some friends of
mine won't be seeing fresh basil for most of the year.
As the Western world slowly gets a firmer grip on its own throat.
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The_Davster
A pnictogen
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I will go pick up some "just in case" nitric acid tomorrow.
Thanks for bringing this to my attention, as depressing as it is.
Hmm, I wonder what will happen with 35% hydroponics peroxide.
Hell, I'm not doing anything illegal, I will gladly go sign my name, on some stupid 'list', jeez if it would keep the fricken gestapo off my back I
would gladly let them take a look-see at my lab and lab notebook, with a 'see, nothing illegal here, now go catch real terrorists and let me further
my chemical education'.
EDIT: Now where in fuck do I go to "comment on the proposed rules"
EDIT2: Fork them....I can get nitrates in from the states, and they dont even put the fact that that is whats inside on the customs slip. Just
'pottery supplies'
Fork them
[Edited on 14-8-2006 by rogue chemist]
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not_important
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| Quote: | Originally posted by rogue chemist
Hell, I'm not doing anything illegal, I will gladly go sign my name, on some stupid 'list', jeez if it would keep the fricken gestapo off my back I
would gladly let them take a look-see at my lab and lab notebook, with a 'see, nothing illegal here, now go catch real terrorists and let me further
my chemical education'.
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Don't be on it. Current attitude is "assume guilt, and keep them away from any means of proving otherwise"
Check some of the terrorist arrests made in the recent past, most of the people tossed into Gitmo, and a number of 'drug lab' cases.
| Quote: |
EDIT: Now where in fuck do I go to "comment on the proposed rules"
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http://www.nrcan.gc.ca/mms/explosif/over/over_e.htm
| Quote: |
EDIT2: Fork them....I can get nitrates in from the states, and they dont even put the fact that that is whats inside on the customs slip. Just
'pottery supplies'
Fork them
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Maybe, but I'd feel pretty safe that the US will doing similar in short order. They've got elections in a few months, and have to show the public
that they are being protected from terrorists. Teach their kids creation science, don't need no experiments `cause it's all true and right there in
the bible to read. North America can't compete with the rest of the world in the sciences? No problem, they've got safety, DRM, and prayer in schools.
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The_Davster
A pnictogen
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In that link I can't seem where to contact them over this matter. Or any mention of it whatsoever. Perhaps I should just use the general contact.
OK, its late, I should sleep but not fucking likely when I am this angry. Mainly over the nitric acid.
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jpsmith123
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I've been wondering when they'd get around to trying something like this in Canada. And I expect it will happen in the U.S. before too long.
I wonder why neither ammonium nor sodium perchlorate is on the list? Perhaps the omission is just a reflection of the ignorance and stupidity of the
statist bean-counters pushing for it.
If the legislation goes through, it may be time to get serious about designing some kind of a furnace to make HNO3.
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evil_lurker
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Its a bunch of bullcrap and a futile waste of time and resources. The law will do nothing to stop terrorists hell bent on destruction as anyone with a
rudimentary knowledge of chemistry could easily overcome most of the restrictions.
I fear similar legislation will appear shortly in the USA as well restricting the sale of peroxide and nitric acid. Already farm supply companies are
restricting the sale of ammonium nitrate fertilizer by the bag... bulk sales only. The Consumer Products Safety Commission is pressuring companies
that sell oxidizers such as nitrates, chlorates, and certain metal powders into restricting sales to less than 454 grams per customer per year.
Things are only going to go from bad to worse when it comes to raw materials... the time to stock up is now.
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Darkblade48
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Polverone
Are all of your instant cold packs going to employ urea from now on, or will they ignore the small amounts of ammonium nitrate they use?
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Most of the instant cold packs I see nowadays are of the urea kind, so they've already anticipated the ban of ammonium nitrate, and eliminated it from
cold packs.
| Quote: | Originally posted by not_important
Will be fun, given that a lot of 30-35% H2O2 is used in the food industry. It's also going to hit the hydroponics people... |
This is true; I actually own an aquarium myself, and part of the aquatic fertilizer mix includes using potassium nitrate to supply plants with their
required nitrates. Now that Canada is moving to restrict them, I can't even buy fertilizer for my plants
| Quote: | Originally posted by rogue chemist
I will go pick up some "just in case" nitric acid tomorrow.
Thanks for bringing this to my attention, as depressing as it is.
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I'd like to know where you pick up some "just in case" nitric acid 
| Quote: | Originally posted by rogue chemist
Hmm, I wonder what will happen with 35% hydroponics peroxide.
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Like many other chemicals, I'm sure most hydroponics store will be forced to remove/keep records of who purchases this "dangerous" chemical.
| Quote: | Originally posted by rogue chemist
Hell, I'm not doing anything illegal, I will gladly go sign my name, on some stupid 'list', jeez if it would keep the fricken gestapo off my back I
would gladly let them take a look-see at my lab and lab notebook, with a 'see, nothing illegal here, now go catch real terrorists and let me further
my chemical education'.
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I agree with not_important, I wouldn't put my name on the list either, it just gives police a further reason to suspect you (even if you are doing
legitimate experiments).
| Quote: | Originally posted by jpsmith123
I've been wondering when they'd get around to trying something like this in Canada. And I expect it will happen in the U.S. before too long.
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I thought the U.S. had many of these tight restrictions (especially in some states like California and Texas?)
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MadHatter
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Not in the list ?
The stupidity is clearly demonstrated in those laws. I didn't see Ca(NO3)2 on that list.
All the cold packs I've ever bought are cheapass and they contain NH4NO3. A test
with a fuel verifies this. Maybe it's cheaper to make NH4NO3 than urea. H2O2 made for
aquarium/hair salon/pool supplies isn't required for organic peroxides. The cheap
2 - 3% stuff works also.
And my personal favorite, the (per)chlorate cell has already been mentioned by Polverone.
From opening of NCIS New Orleans - It goes a BOOM ! BOOM ! BOOM ! MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHA !
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The_Davster
A pnictogen
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Mmm...stockpiling
2.5L 70%HNO3
2.5L 37% HCl
2.5L98% H2SO4
cost? hehe...technically nothing, I traded 10g of palladium for the above. Palladium which I may or may not have obtained by dumpster diving.
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DeAdFX
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If another terrorist attack happens with all these bans in place what the heck is going to happen next? Are more basic chemicals like water and
table salt going to be banned?
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The_Davster
A pnictogen
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Perhaps they will go into companies records and look for big purchases long ago?
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Darkblade48
Hazard to Others
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DeAdFX
If another terrorist attack happens with all these bans in place what the heck is going to happen next? Are more basic chemicals like water and
table salt going to be banned? |
I could see basic chemicals like rubbing alcohol, 3% hydrogen peroxide (from pharmacies/grocery stores) and acetone (hardware stores) get removed from
the shelves.
As it's been mentionned before, terrorists don't need access to 30% H2O2 to make an effective bomb, they can make do with 3% H2O2, they just need
more; but in the end, it still works out to have the same results.
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pots-o-potash
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As a comment for U.S. chemical regulations, United Nuclear (the U.S. hobby chemical supplier) resently posted that new regulations state that
aluminum, magnesium, Al/Mg alloys, zirconium, and titanium powders cannot be sold or otherwise distributed in any particle size finer than 100 mesh.
They also said that any chlorates, perchlorates, nitrates, or permanganates could be sold in ammounts greater than 1 pound per household per year.
They didn't mention any limits for said chemicals in consumer products, ie: permanganate water softener, fertalizers, stump remover, weed killer, etc)
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quicksilver
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Once more the "objectification" of behaviour ("guns produce violence") will have a negitive impact on the economy or rather it will be window dressing
for an election period. Due to the use of nitrates in industry, if this "ban" does impact industial users the prices on some things will skyrocket
(sorry that was bad) or we will be out-sourcing critical industrial activities.
IMO the "ban" will affect the public but the matetials themselves will be available to industrial concerns via special ordering procedures. Thus the
materials will still be available to those who would break any law to break any law! The whole viewpoint of those who blame the object is foolish.
Those who are hell bent on aquiring something; will. Witness the effectivness of the 1914 Harrison Narcotics Act.
However I have been saying for some time now that if one is a committed hobbiest, stock-piling is manditory as this will kill the hobby rocket world
and pyro will be history in about six months. The way to go is to buy what you think you may need for 6 months and buy what you can afford to make
what you would need for a real long time. That's what a credit card is for
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