Sciencemadness Discussion Board
Not logged in [Login ]
Go To Bottom

Printable Version  
Author: Subject: Raspberry Ketone Synthesis
Trauma
Harmless
*




Posts: 3
Registered: 18-6-2016
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 18-6-2016 at 22:53
Raspberry Ketone Synthesis


Hello! First time poster here. I've been interested in the synthesis of raspberry ketone (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raspberry_ketone) from an OTC precursor for a while, and one intermediate I'm looking to make is 4-hydroxybenzyl alcohol, a.k.a. Gastrodigenin. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gastrodigenin)

An idea I recently had was to start with methylparaben, (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methylparaben)

and reduce it to 4-hydroxybenzyl alcohol using a Bouvealt-Blanc Reduction
(http://www.organic-chemistry.org/namedreactions/bouveault-bl...)

I have heard this particular reaction has been called "messy" on this website. Is this because of low yields / side reactions?

The organic chemistry portal listing for the reaction states that this reaction is similar to a Birch reduction. Does this mean that Lithium could potentially work in place of sodium for this reaction?

Thank You! Alternatively, if there are better ideas for arriving at 4-hydroxybenzyl alcohol, I would be more than happy to hear them.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
HeYBrO
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 289
Registered: 6-12-2013
Location: 'straya
Member Is Offline

Mood: :)

[*] posted on 18-6-2016 at 23:11


probably just easier just to buy 4-hydroxybenzaldehyde from eBay than to try and make and then oxidise the alcohol if thats the route you are going to try.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
myristicinaldehyde
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 166
Registered: 23-4-2016
Location: .͐͌ ͛҉̻̫̰̻̖E̮ͮ̐́̚ ̢̗̅̉ͩ͂̒̌.̯̻̺̯̀̎͂̄ͩ̚
Member Is Offline

Mood: сорок пять

[*] posted on 19-6-2016 at 05:05


I found this, which sounds easier (for 4-hydroxybenzyl alcohol)

30 g of phenol are dissolved in 150 ml (a slight excess) of 10% sodium hydroxide; 35 g (excess) of 40% formaldehyde solution are added, and the whole allowed to remain at room temperature for 6 days. Then it is neutralized with hydrochloric acid, extracted repeatedly with ether, and the latter removed on a water bath. If necessary, the residue is steam distilled to remove unchange phenol, and the obtained mixture of ortho and para benzyl alcohols is shaken with cold benzene until nothing further dissolves. The ortho compound, which is much the more soluble, is thus separated from the para-isomer. Yield including both compods, 80% theoretical (32 g). o-Hydroxybenzyl alcohol (saligen) forms colorless crystals; m.p 82° C; the p-hydroxybenzyl alcohol (4-hydroxybenzyl alcohol) melts at 112° C.

Systematic organic chemistry, by W. M. Cumming, 72, 1937.

The problem is the wait time.

[Edited on 2016-6-19 by myristicinaldehyde]
View user's profile View All Posts By User
CuReUS
National Hazard
****




Posts: 928
Registered: 9-9-2014
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 19-6-2016 at 06:13


IIRC,if you do a reimer-tiemann reaction on phenol along with a complexing agent like PEG,you will get the Para formylated compound as the major product.Then you can reduce that to benzy alcohol like this - http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ejoc.201200437/ab... - (99% yield)
another way to make p-hydroxy benzylalcohol from phenol ( 70% yield) - "Journal of Chemical Research - Part S, , # 4 p. 200 - 203"
high yielding (98%) reduction of methylparaben-http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00397910008087061
also see this -https://www.sciencemadness.org/whisper/viewthread.php?tid=97...

[Edited on 19-6-2016 by CuReUS]
View user's profile View All Posts By User
CRUSTY
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 138
Registered: 5-6-2016
Location: Nearby
Member Is Offline

Mood: High-Order

[*] posted on 19-6-2016 at 07:03


As HeYBrO said, it would be pretty easy if you just bought p-hydroxybenzaldehyde and then reduced the aldehyde.

Another possible route to 4-hydroxybenzyl alcohol is to synthesize 4-hydroxybenzoic acid via the Kolbe-Schmitt reaction using potassium hydroxide instead of the traditional sodium hydroxide. It does require a bit of pressure to complete, but I've seen it as low as 2.7 atm (~40 psi), which wouldn't be too difficult to compensate for if you can rig up the right setup. More info on that here under "p-Hydroxybenzoic acid": http://chempedia.info/page/145214243004003046136048230017255...

After producing the 4-hydroxybenzoic acid, you could use LAH or another reducing agent to reduce the carboxyl of the 4-hydroxybenzoic acid to yield 4-hydroxybenzyl alcohol.

[Edited on 19-6-2016 by CRUSTY]




"I've made a huge mistake"


Check out my YouTube channel ("spectrofreak") here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCnUlsCGK8d9UTjZA5DJ5a3A
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Trauma
Harmless
*




Posts: 3
Registered: 18-6-2016
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 19-6-2016 at 11:14


Thank you all for your replies! After making the 4-hydroxybenzyl alcohol, I actually would want to oxidize it to the aldehyde for the next step in the synthesis, so the p-formylation of phenol seems like the ideal reaction to perform here, since it would make things a bit more simple.

The reaction route I am proposing is:

1) aldol condensation of 4-hydroxybenzaldehyde with acetone

2) hydrogenation of the resulting enone to form raspberry ketone

It looks like a reimer-tiemann reaction that forms p-formylated products would be perfect, thank you CuReUS, I'll do a little more research on that.

Even better, it looks like the reaction can be performed using mostly OTC reagents! Spot on!
View user's profile View All Posts By User
morsagh
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 187
Registered: 20-2-2014
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 20-6-2016 at 01:23


How you want to OTC hydrogenate only double bond and don´t reduce ketone? Because ways like urushibara nickel or Zn/AcOH aren´t selective in this way...
View user's profile View All Posts By User
NitreRat
Harmless
*




Posts: 45
Registered: 22-1-2015
Location: Cyberspace
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 20-6-2016 at 04:57


The ketone could be converted to an acetal then you could hydrogenate the double bond under basic conditions like a PdCl2/KHCO2 transfer hydrogenation or possibly NaBH4/MeOH/CuCl reduction.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Crowfjord
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 390
Registered: 20-1-2013
Location: Pacific Northwest
Member Is Offline

Mood: Ever so slowly crystallizing...

[*] posted on 20-6-2016 at 07:12


There is a good writeup in prepublication, here. Also this thread.

One can also analogously make zingerone (a product of ginger) by substituting vanillin for p-hydroxybenzaldehyde.

[Edited on 20-6-2016 by Crowfjord]
View user's profile View All Posts By User
CuReUS
National Hazard
****




Posts: 928
Registered: 9-9-2014
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 25-6-2016 at 08:11


Quote: Originally posted by Trauma  

The reaction route I am proposing is:
1) aldol condensation of 4-hydroxybenzaldehyde with acetone

2) hydrogenation of the resulting enone to form raspberry ketone

one pot method from p-hydroxybenzaldehyde and acetone-http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/adsc.200900902/ab...
Quote:
It looks like a reimer-tiemann reaction that forms p-formylated products would be perfect, thank you CuReUS, I'll do a little more research on that.

I think this was it-https://www.researchgate.net/publication/244564541_Increased...
Quote:
Even better, it looks like the reaction can be performed using mostly OTC reagents! Spot on!

that's true. PEG is sold as a laxative ;)
Quote: Originally posted by morsagh  
How you want to OTC hydrogenate only double bond and don´t reduce ketone? Because ways like urushibara nickel or Zn/AcOH aren´t selective in this way...

http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=66545

[Edited on 25-6-2016 by CuReUS]
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Trauma
Harmless
*




Posts: 3
Registered: 18-6-2016
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 27-6-2016 at 15:43


I'd really love to give that PEG paper a read, how would I get access to it though? I can't seem to get access through my university.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Crowfjord
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 390
Registered: 20-1-2013
Location: Pacific Northwest
Member Is Offline

Mood: Ever so slowly crystallizing...

[*] posted on 27-6-2016 at 16:39


Here you go:



Attachment: Para-selective Reimer-Tiemann.pdf (124kB)
This file has been downloaded 515 times

View user's profile View All Posts By User

  Go To Top