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Author: Subject: Bunsen burner vs. camping stove
Chiron
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[*] posted on 5-8-2016 at 23:07
Bunsen burner vs. camping stove


Could I get away with using a camping stove outdoors for high temperature experiments? I realize the Bunsen flame is a lot more focused but the camping stove setup seems more stable. My stove does 10,000 BTU worth of energy and can go for about two hours. And since I already have a stove, this could save me money.

Unless I'm missing something?
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Sulaiman
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[*] posted on 6-8-2016 at 01:49


no answer so far ...
maybe if you clarify what you mean by "high temperature experiments"
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[*] posted on 6-8-2016 at 06:15


Both burners use the same principal of premixing air with gas before the point of burning. So your only problem is what you already mention; can you concentrate your flame enough for your particular experiment and experimental setup.
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[*] posted on 6-8-2016 at 08:23


I personally prefer using blowtorches for heat. A normal butane torch for most heating and a MAPP gas torch for higher heat/melting metals.
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[*] posted on 6-8-2016 at 09:53


Sometimes a camping stove is actually preferable to a Bunsen burner. When I was working on decarboxylation of sodium benzoate, for instance, I used a camping stove even though I have a Bunsen burner because the camping stove would perfectly heat the entire bottom of the quart paint can I was using as the reaction vessel. I plan to use that setup again for depolymerization of polystyrene.



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Chiron
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[*] posted on 6-8-2016 at 11:56


Quote: Originally posted by Sulaiman  
no answer so far ...
maybe if you clarify what you mean by "high temperature experiments"


It would need to hold 600-700C for about two hours.

I'm thinking this should be ok?

The other thing that concerns me is that a Bunsen burner or torch has a higher potential to burn a hole through the heating vessel, which in this case would be stainless steel.
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pepe
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[*] posted on 6-8-2016 at 16:13


Quote: Originally posted by zts16  
Sometimes a camping stove is actually preferable to a Bunsen burner. When I was working on decarboxylation of sodium benzoate, for instance, I used a camping stove even though I have a Bunsen burner because the camping stove would perfectly heat the entire bottom of the quart paint can I was using as the reaction vessel. I plan to use that setup again for depolymerization of polystyrene.


This is what I would imagine. As far as a debate between bunsen burner v. a traditional stovetop or something similar its really boils down to specific use. Essentially the question is, does your experiment require a directed small yet powerful heat source or can you get by with a stove style heat source?
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Chiron
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[*] posted on 6-8-2016 at 17:23


Quote: Originally posted by pepe  
Quote: Originally posted by zts16  
Sometimes a camping stove is actually preferable to a Bunsen burner. When I was working on decarboxylation of sodium benzoate, for instance, I used a camping stove even though I have a Bunsen burner because the camping stove would perfectly heat the entire bottom of the quart paint can I was using as the reaction vessel. I plan to use that setup again for depolymerization of polystyrene.


This is what I would imagine. As far as a debate between bunsen burner v. a traditional stovetop or something similar its really boils down to specific use. Essentially the question is, does your experiment require a directed small yet powerful heat source or can you get by with a stove style heat source?


The answer to this lies in figuring out the average heat of a blue propane flame, which I can't seem to find data on. Cant convert BTUs to temperature. I'm assuming an average flame is 1500C or hotter, and stainless steel is sufficiently conductive.

The home stove in my place is electric and would not be able to supply the right temps. Plus it's indoors which is a safety hazard!
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pepe
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[*] posted on 6-8-2016 at 18:40


My search tells me the maximum temp of a propane torch is 1,995C. That does not take into account loss of heat due to environment. From what I find a traditional bunsen burner as far as I can find is maxed out at between 1500C and 1900C. Similar burners such as the Merker and Tirrill burners seem to max out at 1500C whereas the Teclu burner can reach higher temps than the bunsen but I cant find out how much higher. The main difference between these burners seems to be in their design regarding the influx of air.

I personally would consider just retrofitting a propane torch to some sort of stand unit that keeps the flame upright and the torch secure. Perhaps if one were resourceful enough they may find or design some sort of fittings for the nozzle and modify it in such a way that allows it similar air flow to these burners but that could be dangerous if you don't know what you are doing. In most cases I would imagine that the propane torch securely connected to a stand should be sufficient.
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Sulaiman
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[*] posted on 7-8-2016 at 02:34


700C can be achieved by almost any common fuel burned with air
the challenge is power, 700C is red heat,
good insulation and/or a powerful (watts, J/s, BTU/hr....) heater required.
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Chiron
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[*] posted on 8-8-2016 at 12:11


I'm going to give the camping stove a try to start, just because it saves money. The reaction calls for 600-650C which I might be able to achieve if I'm lucky. The reagents are cheap so if it doesn't work it won't be the end of the world.

I have a portable bunsen burner... maybe if the reaction isn't going as needed, I could direct the flame from above.
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[*] posted on 22-8-2016 at 01:06


Just an update. Using the stove with an aluminum heat shield, my experiment failed. The reactants reached the secondary phase failed to evolve after that. Based on the outcome, the reaction reached ~500C but didn't go beyond that. Will have to re-think this.

I might just buy a small charcoal BBQ and do the reaction in there.
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Sulaiman
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[*] posted on 22-8-2016 at 03:05


for bbq charcoal or briquettes an air pump such as this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Electric-Inflator-Air-Pump-Portabl...
gives really high heat, like a mini-forge.
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NEMO-Chemistry
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[*] posted on 22-8-2016 at 03:21


I like the BBQ forge idea :D
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[*] posted on 22-8-2016 at 07:38


Do some on-line searching for "aluminum melting charcoal" or similar search strings. There are a lot of sites and videos about how to set up a quick, cheap system capable of melting aluminum at 660 C.



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[*] posted on 25-8-2016 at 10:38


I've used a butane camping stove as my go-to equipment for distillations. However, it cannot give very high temperatures. To obtain these, I use a butane blow torch.



Smells like ammonia....
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