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Melgar
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[*] posted on 18-8-2016 at 08:02
Strange happenings on eBay


So, I was doing my daily rounds of browsing eBay's chemical offerings, when I came upon 500 mL of benzaldehyde. This came as quite a surprise to me, since this is a DEA List I chemical. However, upon closer reading of the law, it seems that seller reporting is only necessary for quantities over 4kg, so maybe this was allowed somehow? Still seemed weird that this was the first time I'd seen benzaldehyde on eBay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HiMedia-GRM7863-500ML-Benzaldehyde-5...

A few clicks later, I notice the same bottle as the thumbnail for a different chemical, methyl anthranilate. Odd. Especially odd that it was being sold by a totally different seller, and the benzaldehyde guy wasn't in the chemical-selling business. I wasn't familiar with methyl anthranilate, so I looked it up. Come to find, it's another DEA list 1 chemical, used for manufacturing quaaludes:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HiMedia-GRM10269-500ML-Methyl-Anthra...

A brief search resulted in one more product with that bottle as its image, but this time it was lactophenol, which seems to be some sort of specialized stain, and nothing the DEA would care about :

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HiMedia-GRM8537-500ML-Lactophenol-50...

Then there's this dude, who's had variants of this listing up for at least the last month. I reported him, but nothing became of it:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Phenyl-2-nitropropene-500g-5g-HgCl2-...

Admittedly, I've ordered a DEA list 1 chemical off eBay before, but it was only elemental iodine, and a small amount at that. I don't think I'd have a hard time proving my intent, (which did not involve drug manufacturing) and considering how easy elemental iodine is to make from KI and various oxidizers, I doubt that'd be a high priority for them.

It's cause for concern, I think, but I'm still not sure what to make of it.
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Texium (zts16)
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[*] posted on 18-8-2016 at 08:08


Hm, if that benzaldehyde is for real it's almost worth it. Seems a bit weird, but both of the reagents have plenty of legitimate uses outside of drug synthesis. I'll be keeping an eye on them.



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stoichiometric_steve
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[*] posted on 18-8-2016 at 09:12


It's quite worrying to see how much Mercury that P2NP guy is selling, you bet that stuff is not gonna be disposed of properly.

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hissingnoise
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[*] posted on 18-8-2016 at 09:58


Quote:
Then there's this dude, who's had variants of this listing up for at least the last month. I reported him, but nothing became of it:

Why report him in the first place?

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Melgar
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[*] posted on 18-8-2016 at 10:26


Quote: Originally posted by hissingnoise  
Quote:
Then there's this dude, who's had variants of this listing up for at least the last month. I reported him, but nothing became of it:

Why report him in the first place?


Selling a highly toxic mercury salt along with 500 grams of a nitrostyrene that reduces easily to amphetamine is pretty irresponsible. It's one thing to sell precursors, it's another thing to sell a kit that any idiot could use, and will probably dispose of the byproducts by dumping them down the drain.
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[*] posted on 18-8-2016 at 10:50


Holy crap. This is painfully blatant if it's not a sting operation. I wouldn't touch this seller with a 10-foot pole.



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[*] posted on 18-8-2016 at 14:35


First seller also has Dimethylaniline...
Interesting if you are in the US
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Texium (zts16)
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[*] posted on 18-8-2016 at 15:01


I wouldn't be surprised if the nitrostyrene guy was a sting. I mean come on, it's pretty much a DIY amphetamine kit. The other ones, I don't know. Probably not.



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mayko
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[*] posted on 18-8-2016 at 18:45


I've been seeing various-sized, identically formatted nitrostyrene/Hg catalyst kits on eBay since March of this year, all surprisingly cheap. I have trouble imagining anything but a sting (one directed at low-hanging fruit, imho) lasting so long on a site that successfully prohibits nitrate salts.

I also sporadically see lots of postings for fairly large, fairly inexpensive quantities of eyebrow-raising chemicals (eg, benzaldehyde or sketchier) coming from former Soviet bloc countries, Ukraine especially. Geopolitics, perhaps...




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Melgar
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[*] posted on 18-8-2016 at 19:37


Quote: Originally posted by mayko  
I've been seeing various-sized, identically formatted nitrostyrene/Hg catalyst kits on eBay since March of this year, all surprisingly cheap. I have trouble imagining anything but a sting (one directed at low-hanging fruit, imho) lasting so long on a site that successfully prohibits nitrate salts.

I also sporadically see lots of postings for fairly large, fairly inexpensive quantities of eyebrow-raising chemicals (eg, benzaldehyde or sketchier) coming from former Soviet bloc countries, Ukraine especially. Geopolitics, perhaps...

I think eBay is more worried about explosives precursors than they are about drugs. So are former Soviet bloc countries, for that matter. You can buy nitrostyrenes OTC, but sulfuric acid is heavily restricted, according to my Ukrainian friend.
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[*] posted on 18-8-2016 at 22:44


This is really going too far and is harmful for social acceptance of home chemistry. I saw that the seller in the first post at the moment has ammonia, Ca(OH)2, HgCl2 and P2NP (the latter is a direct precursor to MDMA and I see no other use for that chemical besides making MDMA). The other ones are fine to me (benzaldehyde also is, here in NL we can buy it at quite a few places), but P2NP should not be offered on eBay. I reported it to eBay as sale of illegal material.

Besides selling P2NP, the seller also writes in its offering that if you are interested in "stealth shipping" of the P2NP, that you should contact him. That also tells enough to me. He only offers "stealth shipping" for the P2NP, not for the other chemicals.

http://www.ebay.nl/itm/Phenyl-2-nitropropene-P2NP-1000g-/282...



[Edited on 19-8-16 by woelen]




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Schleimsäure
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[*] posted on 19-8-2016 at 04:10


P2NP is more so a direct precursor to amphetamine, has to be reduced only.

Obviously P2NP seems not to be restricted in Slovenia. Concerning ebay selling rules, don't know.

On Amazon Germany someone from Lithuania managed to offer several items like PCl3 on Amazon marketplace. Hopelessly overpriced, but I'm wondering it's still online after quite a while. In Germany selling toxic reagents online to private individuals is prohibited.
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[*] posted on 19-8-2016 at 04:52


I reported some of the clearly illegal, restricted, and prohibited items to eBay at least a dozen times in 3 weeks. Nothing was taken down.
I don't want to be a rat or snitch but if this keeps up, the feds will surely step in.
So I reported the chemicals to the DEA since I'd like to use eBay without a massive amount of red tape.
Only some got taken down, all the psychedelic and stimulant precursors are still up.
Lots of these items may be the DEA baiting people.

EBay just took down my dry propanol (1- and 2-) with 1.25-1.5M HCl. No reason given.

They told me as a new seller, they will be scruntizing me and can't keep up with reported items.

EBay is fucked, they use an amalgam of rules they made, the Feds, and the USPS. A rep told me they don't really know much about what chems are listed and use software to catch bad chems, which he seemed to agree they needed a small team reasonably familiar with chemicals. But ebay it top heavy so as much of a resource they are to buyers, they're a nightmare for sellers on so many levela
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stoichiometric_steve
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[*] posted on 19-8-2016 at 07:08


Quote: Originally posted by Melgar  

I think eBay is more worried about explosives precursors than they are about drugs.


If only you were right. My listings of 3,4,5-Trimethoxybenzaldehyde and 2,5-Dimethoxybenzaldehyde were removed, even though those aren't even listed as hazardous materials and have lower toxicity than table salt.
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[*] posted on 19-8-2016 at 08:08


Sorry if that was me. eBay is really negligent and I want to use them for their exposure. Selling those chems and ebay not taking them down will surely lead to legislation, because legislation against drugs is one of the only things that get done in congress.
Then I just imagine ebay required triplicate forms, background checks, etc to sell Methanol.

I really hope I didn't rain on your parade, and if it was in fact you, props. 15 years ago I would have had a different attitude to them. But the 3,4,5-trimethoxybenzaldehyde was impressive (if it was in fact that). I wish we could meddle with those compounds, not for drug use but to make a new compound, possibly generate a patent or two.
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[*] posted on 19-8-2016 at 08:14


HiMedia is legit, they even sell on amazon (with two day shipping if you are a prime member. I bought 25g of powdered phenolpthalien from them for around 10$!

[file]52633[/file] [file]52635[/file]

[Edited on 19-8-2016 by RocksInHead]

20160819_121358.jpg - 2.9MB20160819_121329.jpg - 3.4MB
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[*] posted on 19-8-2016 at 10:56


Sellers are required to report their sales of List 1 and 2 chems to DEA so honestly it would be better for everyone on this board to report those things to DEA, for our image. Maybe there will be a little less persecution of science literacy and education then. Very possible that the seller is working in accordance with DEA, which is pretty cool. Don't order risky things.



Oh.
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[*] posted on 19-8-2016 at 11:04


I can vouch for Himedia on Amazon. I recently received 500 grams of Chloroacetic acid for about 20 bucks. They sell some interesting metal salts and harder to get chemicals, like acetoacetate esters, but they also sell things like isatoic anhydride and benzaldehyde. Although they are a very nice seller, I would not recommend purchasing these chemicals from them, despite the amazingly low price. (500 ml benzaldehyde for 22 dollars? I must be dreaming...)
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[*] posted on 19-8-2016 at 13:01


Quote: Originally posted by SupaVillain  
Sellers are required to report their sales of List 1 and 2 chems to DEA so honestly it would be better for everyone on this board to report those things to DEA, for our image. Maybe there will be a little less persecution of science literacy and education then. Very possible that the seller is working in accordance with DEA, which is pretty cool. Don't order risky things.


I also am extremely leery of ordering List 1 items and to a lesser extent for most List 2 items, but do check the actual reporting requirements:

http://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/pubs/manuals/chem/chem_man...

(check the appendices for reporting thresholds.)

For most List I and II chemicals there are threshold amounts to make it a regulated sale, and trigger reporting, and in most cases the amounts are very large in comparison to what an amateur chemist might use.

There are some List 1 chemicals for which there is no threshold:

1. Ephedrine, its salts, optical isomers, and salts of optical isomers
2. Ergocristine and its salts
3. Gamma-butyrolactone (other names include: GBL; dihydro-1(3H)-furanone; 1,2-Butanolide; 1,4-
Butanolide; 4-Hydroxybutanoic acid lactone; gamma-hydroxybutyric acid lactone)
4. Hypophosphorous acid and its salts (including ammonium hypophosphite, calcium hypophosphite, iron
hypophosphite, potassium hypophosphite, manganese hypophosphite, magnesium hypophosphite, and
sodium hypophosphite)
5. Iodine
6. N-phenethyl-4-piperidone (NPP)
7. Pseudoephedrine, its salts, optical isomers, and salts of optical isomers
8. Phenylpropanolamine, its salts, optical isomers, and salts of optical isomers
9. Red phosphorus
10.White phosphorus

(All ephedrine-like compounds have their own separate restrictions and reporting requirements.)

[Edited on 19-8-2016 by careysub]
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stoichiometric_steve
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[*] posted on 19-8-2016 at 13:11


Quote: Originally posted by Cabalaba  
Sorry if that was me.


It probably wasn't you, but some stupid ass pharmacist from Germany who made some sort of sport out of reporting any of my items to ebay.

If i ever manage to get his address, i'm gonna take a dump in his mailbox for sure.
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[*] posted on 19-8-2016 at 22:01


Well youre probably right, I reported 1,4-BDO specifically as sold as rim cleaner, and mentioned other questionable chemicals were listed. I just dont want eBay to make selling chemicals even harder. Also, I didn't report anything to eBay, since I reported the BDO 7 times in two weeks, so i went to the DEA.
eBay shouldn't be selling 1,4-BDO (as rim cleaner) which metabolically can travel 2 (or more paths), one in to GHB and another pathway making moderately toxic metabolites (if its even pure). Not to mention the impurities and ease of use as a lethal drug or date rape drug.
Its ashame because GHB has some healthy effects (proimmune system, released growth hormones/factors and other beneficial chemicals that promote a healthy body) but its Theapeutic index is so low (like 6,meaing 6 times the ED50 is the LD50). Thats why Roche has it on Schedule 3 (for narcolepsy but all other GBL/GHB preparations are Schedule 1.

I digress:
The BDO was removed the next day but the 3,4,5-Trimethoxybenzaldehyde and 2,5-dimethoxybenzaldehyde stayed up a few more weeks.

To bad to, Roletamide seems like a fun synth for me. Its challenging enough, just slightly beyond my skills. Its be a great learning experience.
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Cabalaba
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[*] posted on 19-8-2016 at 23:31


Quote: Originally posted by stoichiometric_steve  
Quote: Originally posted by Melgar  

I think eBay is more worried about explosives precursors than they are about drugs.


If only you were right. My listings of 3,4,5-Trimethoxybenzaldehyde and 2,5-Dimethoxybenzaldehyde were removed, even though those aren't even listed as hazardous materials and have lower toxicity than table salt.


You are correct, those compounds have ultra low toxicity/hazard, but why sell them. When saw them, I thought you were encouraging the use of those chemicals for more advanced and legal syntheses, or even novel syntheses. Thats precisely why I didnt include your listings in my report, only the BDO.

But now, would you care to explain to the rest of us why you were selling them? Capitalist intentions?

I ask because youre coming off as if its no big deal to let the public have those compounds, unless you are working with LE or are encouraging scheduled drug manufacturing, or just want money.

If we want to continue using ebay, since it has a wide audience, we all need to be responsible with what we sell. And likewise when we choose to report items. Talking about drug synthesis is great, but making it easy to do by offering materials to anyone on eBay will only lead to eBay changing its policies on chemical sales.

I would feel guilty if what I did impacted you, regardless of your intent, because I simply wanted rim-cleaner (BDO) off eBay. One kid dies from it, one person gets raped, and its tied to eBay, I guarantee policies will change. Look what happened when phenazepam was openly sold. eBay changed their policy to disallow all drugs, even antibiotics.

We all share responsibility when selling chemicals, not to save our own butts, but to make sure we can continue to sell and buy on ebay for years to come.


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[*] posted on 20-8-2016 at 00:38


Fuck me, no wonder ebay is getting a nightmare to buy sulphuric acid!

Why report anyone?? Its like running to a teacher when you see someone smoking in the toilets.

My attitude is its non of my business, people doing illegal shit will get caught, it dosnt need snitches. Wait until the USA starts getting suicide bombings and you cant make a flash or bang any more (like the UK).

Making it hard for sellers to make a profit (ebay and paypal is a rip off) is only going to make getting decent chemicals really difficult.


The point is what if people are using them to make drugs? Do you honestly think your doing your bit for society by reporting? You wont stop drugs by banning and laws.

Prohibition should have taught people that, make a market illegal and you hand it over to gangsters and drug lords.

Just my 3p on it. That and the fact i now have to pay £30 for 1ltr decent sulphuric acid, because i cant get it on ebay any more! I wonder how many people it took to report it for ebay to get rid of it
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[*] posted on 20-8-2016 at 01:09


I just logged on to write what NEMO just said.

Reporting a chemical has the exact effect as selling a chemical which is suspicious. All you are is a cog in chemophic ban wagon which leads to the governmental policies that make no sense. It's a circle how can you not see it bad chemical gets posted bad chemical gets reported bad chemical removed now someone else puts the ad up now fast forward 3 years and eBay had to hire 10000 people to handle the reporting so then then ban sales all together of chemicals as soon as the profit margin hits the tip once it's more of a hassle than profit. And think hard about how many chemicals are sold compared to everything else.

How can you claim not being a rat right after calling up the DEA after your first attempt failed. You're the epitome of a rat. Not only did you tell on the guy you reported him to the DEA. The DEA. What if that guy is a single dad raising 3 kids not only is his income taken but maybe the kids have no dad now.

You have no right to assume the end use of a chemical. It could be used for reference or who knows you can't assume. How many years has the war on drugs been going on and how bad is the drug problem? It's bad. Real bad. And it will never go away until the demand is gone. You can't attack the chemical you need to educate the youth.




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[*] posted on 20-8-2016 at 01:29
NEMO-Chemistry


I use hardware shop drain-opener sulphuric acid at £5/litre
and I use apc pure for reagent grade
https://apcpure.com/product/sulphuric_acid_96

apc pure deliver next day to low volume domestic amateurs like me

High concentration sulphuric acid should not be available to the public (OTC) in my opinion,
I can think of no unique use other than throwing in faces, which is evil.
As an amateur chemist I want no restrictions on what I can buy or own,
but as a member of society there are many many things that I want 'banned'
there are a lot of stupid and/or evil people !

OTOH I think that all 'recreational' drugs should be legalised so that they are safer,
generate taxes and let Darwinian selection run its course.
More harm is done by politicians and corporate greed !

[Edited on 20-8-2016 by Sulaiman]
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