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Author: Subject: An eBay Alternative for Chemicals
Cabalaba
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[*] posted on 19-8-2016 at 05:45
An eBay Alternative for Chemicals


I guarantee in 5-10 years, if ebay stops using software to flag items rather than a team with an MS or Ph.D. in chemistry, we wont have the luxury of buying chems on ebay easily and sellers will only be the high volume, top sellers, selling only to registered business addresses (non-residential). And smaller seller will need to file paperwork and pass background checks routinely. The rest will be bait sales for the Feds.

[if this hasn't already been done, correct me if Im ignorant] I wonder how difficult it would be to start a lab supply (namely lab chemical) website, run by actual chemists. Many friends are software/website designers, so that would be a favor paid in Blantons. Id be willing to front the cash and do basic overseeing of whats listed, and initially ask the group if a suspicious chemical is appropriate to sell until it starts turning a profit. Its a pipedream, but if it worked, it would need a number of full time chemist employees.

Ideas? Is this just a stupid, unrealistic idea?
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Dr.Bob
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[*] posted on 19-8-2016 at 05:56


Try www.synthsource.org as azn alternative. A few people here created and use it, but it has not grown very fast. If a few hundred people used it, it would become a more useful tool for chemical and equipment sourcing.
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Sulaiman
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[*] posted on 19-8-2016 at 05:56


If you were to set up such a supply company, with full time employees
will you care more for 'freedom of chemistry' or regular income for your employees and business ?
would you then risk everything for a few genuine amateurs and a lot of 'cooks' ?
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Cabalaba
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[*] posted on 19-8-2016 at 06:15


"would you then risk everything for a few genuine amateurs and a lot of 'cooks' ?"

I disagree, risks aren't black or white. Say someone wanted something that is usually a legit product. Id need consultants. Questionnaires work well. For example, I listed 2M2B not knowing idiots drink that foul smelling crap. I consulted a lawyer, got their IDs (refused sales to one of the four under 20yrs old), and refused the other two because they had no high school education (and actually said that) or said they wanted it for "testing purposes." The forth guy described in detail his training, listed his website at his Ph.D program, and described in detail how he would use it to make another chemical for fun. He may have been lying but if he did, he did a great job just to get 50mL M2B2.
not saying some druggies aren't smart but 85-90% could be weeded out easily. Simply asking if they know the chemical could be used improperly, most druggies would pretend not to know. The other 10-15%, if they had a good description of a legit reaction, Id need to consult other chemists and of course the quantity would be an issue.

lastly, We could choose certain chemicals to avoid, and use the DEA's guidelines for such.

"will you care more for 'freedom of chemistry' or regular income for your employees and business ?"
-I think thats a false choice. freedom of chemistry is critical as is freedom of speech but limits apply. Likewise, I think even chemists with full time jobs would work for this, in fact be ideal. But Id definitely care more for my employee's than the business. As a hobbyist and familiar with business, there is a middle ground.

But I agree, that specific question deserves further discussion. My view isn't the only right view around, others may have a better approach.
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Cabalaba
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[*] posted on 19-8-2016 at 06:16


Quote: Originally posted by Sulaiman  
If you were to set up such a supply company, with full time employees
will you care more for 'freedom of chemistry' or regular income for your employees and business ?
would you then risk everything for a few genuine amateurs and a lot of 'cooks' ?


Thanks, Ill try using that too. Perhaps theres no need to start our own, just build that up.
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Cabalaba
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[*] posted on 19-8-2016 at 06:20


Sorry one more thing, opening an auction site offers a level of protection from prosecution. The site simply allows users to post chemicals, we'd be responsible for taking down certain listing or removing certain members.
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careysub
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[*] posted on 19-8-2016 at 06:50


One problem with SynthSource is that there is no sense of the "liveness" of the listings, in contrast to a regular on-line store or eBay where you have some assurance that everything you see are actually available under the listed terms.

For example is a beaker listed in November last year, 9 months ago, still available under the stated terms?

Especially with the "group buy" type of thing they are generally one shot events, and if you do not get in on time, that ship has sailed. The absolute alcohol buy from two years ago is obviously dead.

People post questions about whether item X is still available, but generally there is no posted response.

Do people ever pull listings down when they are no longer valid?

Some sort of policy, best practice, or custom about indicating finite time periods, or when an offer closes seems in order.
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Dr.Bob
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[*] posted on 19-8-2016 at 06:57


On most forums, it is hard to remove old items or even edit them, that is one challenge of the forum format. But several people who have posted items are still selling, at least one other person than I is still at it. The other way is to just post what it is that you wish to buy, the more specific, the better. I have answered many of those posts and been able to say "yes I have that for $x", which is easier than posting everything I have, since it changes so fast. But it is a starting point. If enough people used www.synthsource.org than it would become more current, and also more investment could be made to improve it. Amazon and Ebay weren't built in a day, and any chemical source site will take longer, as the number of buyers is so small. I get people saying that there is a demand for bottles, beakers, and vials, but I have found all of them for small groups and still have leftovers, as the number of buyers almost always shrinks once I have the items. But that is the challenge of trying to sell science stuff, fortunately the bulk of my stuff I did not have to pay for in advance, as I could have never sold the stuff for reasonable prices in that case.
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careysub
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[*] posted on 19-8-2016 at 07:33


It is however quite easy to post a follow-up to indicate an offer is closed.

If this were standard practice (instead of never used at all, AFAIK) then live offers would stand out.
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Cabalaba
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[*] posted on 19-8-2016 at 08:00


I like synthsource, doesn't seem to have the ease of payment, but most people have paypay.
The only thing Im not fond of is the listings with dozens of chemicals as being a large portion of the small amount of listings.

Im going relist my eBay listings by chemical, refer them to my email, to discuss further. Ive accumulated a lot of high grade chemicals, newer ones from Sigma, fluka, M&P, etc. The next challenge will be to post photos, eBay offered zommable and large photos for clarity. Not sure synthsource does too.

But if it were bulked up, it could be a decent place to go to for us hobbyists. I just wonder how easily we could report chemicals for drug synthesis.
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Texium (zts16)
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[*] posted on 19-8-2016 at 08:10


Quote: Originally posted by Cabalaba  

But if it were bulked up, it could be a decent place to go to for us hobbyists. I just wonder how easily we could report chemicals for drug synthesis.
Very easily, actually. Just report it like you would report a post on here, and it will send a ticket to the moderators and admins. I am a moderator on Synthsource as well as on here.



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Cabalaba
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[*] posted on 19-8-2016 at 08:11


Explain to me the relationship between synthsource and this site.

If I found a questionable chemical, contact you another admin?

[may sound like a dumb question, my apologies if it is].

[Edited on 19-8-2016 by Cabalaba]
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Texium (zts16)
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[*] posted on 19-8-2016 at 08:18


You could either send a U2U message to me on here (which would be most likely to be seen immediately), or report the post on Synthsource by clicking the little options dropdown on the top right corner of the post in question and hitting report, which will let you send a report automatically to all of the Synthsource moderators.



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Cabalaba
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[*] posted on 19-8-2016 at 08:33


Thanks.

And to previous comments, due-diligence is required. It would be nice if they took down listings every 30 days or so (or gave you the option to relist), but I know that sounds easier said than done.

But thats where seller's ratings would be handy. if a seller doesnt remove something that is already sold and a customer expresses interest, it could be posted on the sellers rating topic. Though it would be nice to have that automated to, but again, easier said than done.

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Cabalaba
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[*] posted on 19-8-2016 at 09:34


Sorry one more thing, opening an auction site offers a level of protection from prosecution. The site simply allows users to post chemicals, we'd be responsible for taking down certain listing or removing certain members.
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SupaVillain
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[*] posted on 19-8-2016 at 10:47


I wrote a lengthy post somewhere on this section of the board recently about this and basically keeping things under 30 grams for solids and under 30ml for liquids, and no compressed gases, is the best way to do it. All you have to do is write that it conforms with 49 CFR 173.4 (or whatever it is) on the package. Learn the laws and you will be stress free, they go into great detail for each chemical but it is not as complicated as it seems. Basically you might not be doing any good unless you can easily order chemicals from legit places like Sigma Aldrich and then resell them to trustworthy individuals.



Oh.
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Cabalaba
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[*] posted on 19-8-2016 at 22:46


I had a chemical company, certified and registered.. Once I get the ESN/EIN, Ill be doing just that, buying quality products (not used for drug manufacturing) and reselling. As Supervillian said, shipping as mail-able limited quantities, as described in USPS pub 52. But keeping things below 100mL or 100g usually puts you at an ORM-D level, which isnt that complicated either. Not all chemicals can be sent these ways but a lot can.

But eBay was a great market, without it Ill need to find clientele with the money to buy these chemicals. Although I wouldnt do it for free, Id like to see hobbyists be able to skip 2-5 steps to reach a product they want.

Thats why I was looking at SynthSource but hardly anyone seems to go there.

I guess ill list what I have already here, and let you know my company is able tobuy from lab suppliers. The catch is I cant use the company to sell chems at cost, that would raise red flags with federal agencies. A friend did this in college, didnt charge a dime more than it cost and he had 2 FBI agents asking him what was the point of his LLC since it behaved as a non-for-profit.
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NEMO-Chemistry
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[*] posted on 20-8-2016 at 03:22


There is a free ebay clone type software available, it would make synth source alot easier to use.

Its very much like ebay but lacks a couple of the features that i am sure a good programmer could add.
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stoichiometric_steve
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[*] posted on 20-8-2016 at 05:15


Quote: Originally posted by Cabalaba  
I had a chemical company, certified and registered.. Once I get the ESN/EIN, Ill be doing just that, buying quality products (not used for drug manufacturing) and reselling.


so you wanna resell "legit" chemicals like i do but you scrutinize me for it? you're a fucking hypocrite.
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