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Author: Subject: Where is Blogfast25 ?
phlogiston
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[*] posted on 8-7-2017 at 13:53


Let's hope the judge can and will take into account that, while he technically broke a law, he has not ever put anyone at danger and has no malicious intent.



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j_sum1
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[*] posted on 8-7-2017 at 16:00


Quote: Originally posted by phlogiston  
Let's hope the judge can and will take into account that, while he technically broke a law, he has not ever put anyone at danger and has no malicious intent.


Too late. Sentencing has happened.
This is an overreaction from beginning to end. And it hasn't ended yet. After his 8 month jail term he has a "criminal behaviour order" to not "directly or indirectly store or purchase raw or synthesised chemicals" and also to dispose of any of the remaining chemicals he has. That is such a vague all-encompassing condition that will be impossible to not violate -- you can't make pancakes under those directives. It just leaves the door open for a follow-up witch hunt.
So, amongst all of the sad aspects of this case, they are removing from him any possibility of engaging in a hobby he enjoys. I doubt we will ever see him again at SM.

This is a gross miscarriage of justice.


[edit] Quotation marks added.



Sorry, forgot to include some links.

This one has some video of bloggers in his lab.
http://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/news/hull-east-yorkshire-news...

Here is seems officialdom is unclear whether they are concerned about toxicity or energetics or unlicensed selling.
http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/15385384.Jail_for_chemical_s...


I am very conscious of the fact that I am reading news reports and not court documentation -- and there is nothing to convince me of the veracity of the news sources. I'd love to know what actually happened and there is no way anyone could find out from the news feed. They can't even state unambiguously what the actual offense was.

[Edited on 9-7-2017 by j_sum1]
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Rosco Bodine
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[*] posted on 8-7-2017 at 16:11


He was such a stickler for "technical rules" he would insist be applied to others right here on this board, that the irony is incredible he would be so particular about rules in a virtual community, while running afoul of rules in the real world where it is a matter of such personal consequence.
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[*] posted on 8-7-2017 at 19:48


Quote: Originally posted by j_sum1  
After his 8 month jail term he has a "criminal behaviour order" to not "directly or indirectly store or purchase raw or synthesised chemicals" and also to dispose of any of the remaining chemicals he has. That is such a vague all-encompassing condition that will be impossible to not violate -- you can't make pancakes under those directives. It just leaves the door open for a follow-up witch hunt.
So, amongst all of the sad aspects of this case, they are removing from him any possibility of engaging in a hobby he enjoys. I doubt we will ever see him again at SM.
That's preposterous! He'd have to leave the country if he wants to have any hope of continuing with chemistry...



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JJay
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[*] posted on 9-7-2017 at 07:08


I see very little glassware in the videos of blogfast's lab. A few beakers, some small Erlenmeyers... plastic graduated cylinders... no jointware....





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j_sum1
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[*] posted on 9-7-2017 at 07:16


Well he did nearly no chemistry in his shed in the 12 months before the incident. He had other issues to deal with as well.
There is a good chance his glassware was washed and packed up at the time.
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JJay
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[*] posted on 9-7-2017 at 07:20


That's true, but why wouldn't he wash and pack up his plasticware as well?



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Rosco Bodine
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[*] posted on 9-7-2017 at 18:13


Quote: Originally posted by j_sum1  

I'd love to know more specifics on this incident. Right now we don't even know what substances were involved.


It was not my intent to cause controversy. The irony about this scenario is just incredible, like some truth stranger than fiction story. The details are pretty sketchy.

More specifics would be interesting to know, but I have nothing further, except for what IIRC came from an older article was a mention the purchaser(/s?) were involved in two murders, which doesn't necessarily implicate others, but does make things more serious.

The angle about the purchaser being a Ukrainian or "islamophobe" I know nothing about, but put together with the quote from the mother, there definitely seems to be some vague nexus with the jihad / counter-jihad unpleasantness afoot in europe and other places around the world.

[Edited on 7/10/2017 by Rosco Bodine]
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[*] posted on 9-7-2017 at 18:28


I'd like to see a link to news article regarding the "Islamophobe terrorists" he dealt with
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[*] posted on 9-7-2017 at 18:55


Quote: Originally posted by Rosco Bodine  
The details are pretty sketchy.

This is one of the things that disturbs me the most. At least from the media's point of view, the analysis is superficial to the point of hobby chemist = terrorist activity = evil = deserved jail time. No attention has been given to providing actual details.

From what I infer of blogfast's statements he knowingly used and sold substances that I presume are relatively recent on the restricted list -- and he confessed to doing so. I am guessing that, as a chemist. he has a more complete understanding of the actual dangers and range of uses of the materials in question and felt the laws were unnecessarily rigid and arbitrary (a view many of us share). Therefore he overlooked licensing requirements. (Although in his media statement he said he "forgot"). I seriously doubt that he had or has any malicious intent. The media omits details. It makes a difference whether he was selling Al powder or gram quantities of perchloric or nitric acid or whether the offence was kitsets for kg quantities of TATP. There was nothing visible in his lab that could have justified a bomb squad and evacuation of 40 houses.

Quote: Originally posted by JJay  
That's true, but why wouldn't he wash and pack up his plasticware as well?

It is possible that his jointed glassware had been confiscated prior to the video being taken. It is also possible that he managed to offload some of his gear to a safer location before the interview.
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JJay
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[*] posted on 9-7-2017 at 19:10


I read an article somewhere that said a pound of aluminum powder... not sure where....

I don't think he had malicious intent, but how could he possibly have not been aware that he had to meet licensing requirements?? I mean... if you had something illegal in your lab (hypothetically, of course), wouldn't you know about it? It just doesn't make any sense.

Perhaps he forgot to mail his license application or put it off... but could he have actually gotten a license in that location? How much would it have cost?




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clearly_not_atara
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[*] posted on 9-7-2017 at 19:15


Quote:
if you had something illegal in your lab (hypothetically, of course), wouldn't you know about it?

The list of laws is not exactly short... it certainly surprised me that some things were illegal. Maybe he made the powder himself?
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JJay
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[*] posted on 9-7-2017 at 19:27


That doesn't necessarily make it magically legal... in the U.S., you can manufacture listed substances that are not controlled substances for use in your own unregistered laboratory for lawful purposes *if* you are a bona fide chemist *and* do so in the course of professional work. So it's actually lawful to make some phosphorus, for example, if you have a legitimate reason for doing so. But that's an exception given in statutory law and does not apply generally in most of the world.



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j_sum1
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[*] posted on 9-7-2017 at 19:31


Can you see if you can dig up that Al powder reference?
Bloggers did a lot of work in times past involving thermites -- some ground-breaking stuff.
It would not surprise me at all if he had some Al powder on hand and chose to onsell it. And I can understand having familiarity with a substance like that and dismissing some of the regulations as draconian.
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JJay
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[*] posted on 9-7-2017 at 19:43


I was thinking it was a Free Press article, but I'm not seeing it... I do see an article that suggests that the judge didn't think it was appropriate that the chemicals were stored in a populated area....



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[*] posted on 9-7-2017 at 20:44


Was he charged with several things? There is talk of the oxidizers that were made illegal in the UK, and also that he plead guilty to the Poisons Act of 1972.

He was initially charged with supplying bomb-making equipment to terrorists but later cleared. Appearing in court on Wednesday, Meyers pleaded guilty to a breach of the Poisons Act 1972.

District Judge Fred Rutherford told the court: 'He's a trained chemist running a company in respect of these chemicals.
'When new legislation came in, the police spoke to him about these substances and advised he should not be in possession of them. He was advised to obtain a licence on two occasions.'
He will now be sent to Crown Court to be sentenced because the Magistrates' did not have sufficient power to pass a sentence long enough for the offences.
After the hearing, Detective Chief Superintendent Hutchinson said although the sale may have been legal at the time, Meyers should have been 'more responsible' about who he was supplying the lethal chemicals to.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4367780/Breaking-Bad...
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Rosco Bodine
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[*] posted on 10-7-2017 at 04:20


Here is a results list for articles

http://www.bridlingtonfreepress.co.uk/search?query=Gert+Meye...
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Rosco Bodine
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[*] posted on 10-7-2017 at 04:31


Quote: Originally posted by NedsHead  
I'd like to see a link to news article regarding the "Islamophobe terrorists" he dealt with


The entire news reported story seems pretty incomplete and cryptic and fishy, like there is awaiting to be told some "rest of the story" that they aren't saying, or that much of the story already published is simply manufactured fiction.
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[*] posted on 10-7-2017 at 05:20


It reads like typical dramatised media fiction, loyal readers will be calling to have this monster thrown on the next fleet to Australia
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[*] posted on 10-7-2017 at 05:30


Quote: Originally posted by NedsHead  
It reads like typical dramatised media fiction, loyal readers will be calling to have this monster thrown on the next fleet to Australia


If you read the comments of those articles, majority of the people seem to be calling him dangerous, and that he had ulterior motives, etc., etc. The scene resembles a lynch mob!




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Loptr
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[*] posted on 10-7-2017 at 06:00


I find it ironic that blogfast25 is given credit in Theodore Gray's book, entitled "Mad Science 2: Experiments You Can Do At Home, But STILL Probably Shouldn't".

The judge, "He even is credited to a book where the title says you shouldn't do it at home!". :(




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[*] posted on 10-7-2017 at 07:43


Wow that is all just awful. I feel terrible for Gert. He's been a great influence on me and has helped me with experiments many times. He's contributed so much to this forum, and if he actually has to destroy all of his chemicals after being released from jail that is the end of his hobby. We'll lose a great resource to the hobby community. I wish there was something I could do to help. I'm glad Rosco's ramblings haven't gotten the thread closed at least. He did link the articles originally so I certainly appreciate that.

[Edited on 7-10-2017 by MrHomeScientist]
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[*] posted on 10-7-2017 at 09:36


It would be interesting if someone could get the court documents so we could find out what the details are. In the USA they are public record.

Dailymail is notorious for tabloid journalism. I might have tried to get a good word out to the media too but definitely not from them. That article is borderline defamation. What saddens me most is the comments along the lines of "I'm sorry he is just as bad as them!" when the "terrorist" he sold "highly dangerous chemicals" to was some random white supremacist who stabbed a guy to death.

However, his sentence is probably for the flagrant disregard of several requests by police to obtain proper licensing for his stock. It's a victory for terrorism that the licenses are even required, but you still can't just ignore the laws you don't like. He was always very bullheaded in his political views, and I think this time he picked a fight with wrong people. It will be interesting to see if he comes back. He was an excellent chemist and I hope this (or the vague "health issue" they mention) doesn't deter his return.

What baffles me is that the police had been there twice before, and suddenly on confiscation day they evacuate 40 people for two days and cordon off the block, spending $46,000 US to take a couple of bottles out of a shed. Bureaucracy at its finest.

Anyway, if the prison system is anything like the US, he'll probably just spend those 4 months in a minimum security FPC full of other nonviolent "white collar" offenders. Three square meals a day, a work release program followed by some quality reading time and exercise, regular phone calls and visitation... inconvenient, sure, but it's not like anyone's going to get shanked.




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clearly_not_atara
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[*] posted on 10-7-2017 at 11:31


Quote: Originally posted by JJay  
That doesn't necessarily make it magically legal... in the U.S., you can manufacture listed substances that are not controlled substances for use in your own unregistered laboratory for lawful purposes *if* you are a bona fide chemist *and* do so in the course of professional work. So it's actually lawful to make some phosphorus, for example, if you have a legitimate reason for doing so. But that's an exception given in statutory law and does not apply generally in most of the world.

What I meant was: if you powder aluminium yourself, you might never find out it's illegal. Although if you had tried to buy it I guess that's kind of unlikely. I think if you showed a bag of aluminium powder to the average Brit he'd have no idea it was contraband.
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JJay
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[*] posted on 10-7-2017 at 11:59


Aluminum powder sales (and for that matter, the sales of most pyrotechnic materials) are legal in the U.S., but the ATF has been known to seek court orders to stop people from selling pyrotechnics materials in a manner that they consider irresponsible despite the absence of any clear law against it. That is why several of the popular U.S.-based pyro suppliers have quantity restrictions.

It's legal for me to have large quantities of aluminum powder, although I imagine my landlord wouldn't like it, and it could raise insurance rates (and there are fire codes that have to be met, etc.). But it's not something I keep sitting around in large quantities... I think I have four grams of it in a bag around here somewhere (which is lawful and shouldn't upset anyone). But any American can buy 25 kg of smokeless powder over the counter at most department stores, so fuss over aluminum powder is really quite silly.







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