anti_vizsla
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Tetrodoxin or Saxitoxin is more toxic?
Hi all,
I would like to know which of the two toxins is more dangerous for humans.
I know both are marine toxins that require LC-MS or ELISA for detection, thus time consuming.
Is there a faster way to detect it with a good detection limit, lets say 10^(-7) M?
Thanks
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Sauron
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You want the short form answer? Saxitoxin by a long mile. If you want that quantified I would have to crack a book. Most likely you can find the
answers in Merck Index as easily as I can.
Saxitoxin was the agent in the infamous "nondiscernible biomicroinoculator" CIA assassination weapon which Director William Colby disclosed to the
Rockefeller (or maybe Church) Commission, leading to destruction of TSD's stock of the toxin. The weapon was essentially an airgun firing a tiny glass
sliver tipped with a miniscule amount of toxin. Like the old Brylcream jingle: a little dab'll do ya.
The weapon was developed by a contractor named Paris Theodore at Seventrees Ltd. in New York City. Because of his cooperation with the congressional
investigators his name is a dirty one now around certain parts of the Washington DC area, particularly along the George Washington Parkway in McLean.
As to your question concerning detection, the Japanese would be the ones with all the answeres about the blowfish toxin, as apart from the specialty
fugu sashimi restaurants there I am unaware that it is a common problem.
The red tide dinoflagellates which produce saxitoxin are mostly a problem in the Pacific Northwestern US and Canada and the toxin accumulates in
mollusks when these algae blooms happen, and sometimes seafood lovers are poisoned accidentally. A Canadian company produces a test kit for prevention
of public health emergencies with saxitoxin, but I have few details. Sounds like a job for Google.
[Edited on 1-2-2007 by Sauron]
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franklyn
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Okay , so how does Saxitoxin compare to Brevetoxin. Both appear in the same
stew. Wiki does not have an informative entry on Brevetoxin , nor do other likely
sources. From what I recall it is comparabe to Botulinum Toxin in neurotoxicity.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_tide
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saxitoxin
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brevetoxin
http://www.ch.ic.ac.uk/wiki/index.php/It:Saxitoxin
http://www.ch.ic.ac.uk/wiki/index.php/It:Brevetoxin
http://www.cbwinfo.com/Biological/BWList.shtml
http://www.cbwinfo.com/Biological/Toxins/Saxitoxin.html
http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/intro/bio_saxitoxin.htm
Here they appear indistinguishable _
http://www.bt.cdc.gov/agent/saxitoxin/casedef.asp
http://www.bt.cdc.gov/agent/brevetoxin/casedef.asp
History of synthesis _
http://www.chm.bris.ac.uk/motm/stx/saxi.htm
http://www.ncl.ox.ac.uk/quicktime/brevetoxin.html
.
[Edited on 2-2-2007 by franklyn]
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not_important
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This
http://www.whoi.edu/science/B/people/mhahn/Trainer_Baden_139...
is the best I could find, and suugests that saxitoxin may be slightly more toxic; however they have differing modes of action and may concentrate in
different tissues.
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longimanus
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http://chemister.da.ru/Toxicology/Toxins/tetrodotoxin.htm,
http://chemister.da.ru/Toxicology/Toxins/saxitoxin.htm
and
http://chemister.da.ru/Toxicology/ld50.htm
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chemrox
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synthesis: http://www.chm.bris.ac.uk/motm/stx/saxi.htm
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chemrox
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from that it's evident one could make a whole series of related agents
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franklyn
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http://www.fasebj.org/cgi/reprint/3/7/1807.pdf
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zed
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Well, tetrodoxin is probably the easiest to come by. There is a common, brown, rough skinned, orange bellied, water salamander (newt) in Northern
California thats skin is loaded with it. As a kid, I caught and held many in my hands. Put one in my mouth for a moment onetime, on a bet. Not a
good idea!
Just bag a few, extract the toxin, and.....Oh wait, this is the Science Madness Forum isn't it. The assassinations forum is elsewhere. Though it
does look like 500micrograms Sub-Cutaneous, will do the trick for a 170 lb human.
Not that killing is the only use for this material. Dose somebody with this stuff, bury them alive (though fully conscious), dig 'em up after a few
days, and put them on a complex, traditional, Haitian drug combination .... And, you could create your very own Science Zombies.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rough-skinned_newt
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetrodotoxin
[Edited on 17-6-2010 by zed]
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franklyn
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http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=424&am...
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