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JJay
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[*] posted on 12-1-2018 at 08:38


Quote: Originally posted by SWIM  
Look,
It's all very simple.

There is a magic bearded man in the sky who watches you all the time and will torture you mercilessly for all eternity because he loves you.

Just shut up and accept him as your invisible friend.

Or we will kill you and rape your children to death.


That's the crux of christianity and everything else is just window dressing to pull in the rubes.



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Magpie
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[*] posted on 12-1-2018 at 10:28


Quote: Originally posted by JJay  


But let's face it: Religion is a farce intended to keep the sheep from murdering each other while extorting wealth from the gullible.


That's not working very well according to my local newspaper. We are averaging about 1 murder/week in a metropolitan area of about 150,000.

Not taxing church donations and the building, etc, is stealing from the remaining tax paying citizens. WTF why do churches get an exemption? My minister lives in a parsonage so he has no direct housing costs. Why is this tax free?


Quote: Originally posted by JJay  

This isn't the 15th century; saying that God is evil is not uncivil....


Dan Barker says that "God is the most unpleasant character in all fiction."

Read the book and you'll see that He is not just unpleasant but extremely evil.




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[*] posted on 12-1-2018 at 10:38


Hi everyone.

I have been staying away. As no one had complained, I expected you were all playing nice. Someone finally complained.

Do you all want to continue, or shall we let this one go.




My personal view is that God, if present in the fashion the 3 monotheistic religions I have some experience with have conceived, is the ultimate comedian.

My reason? God's choice to run my personal software package on this particular rather squishy bit of hardware...





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The explosion removed the windows, the door and most of the chimney.
It was the sort of thing you expected in the Street of alchemists. The neighbors preferred explosions, which were at least identifiable and soon over. They were better than the smells, which crept up on you.
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measures should always be prescribed 
on the hypothesis of an explosion.

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[*] posted on 12-1-2018 at 11:06


Continue! Why would anyone complain? We are being extremely civil. Are we hurting someone's feelings?



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[*] posted on 12-1-2018 at 11:23


Mine are surely not hurt, but I have a feeling I’m the reason for the complaining.

I don’t know why. I thought I was being civilized. I think we should continue

[Edited on 12-1-2018 by ELRIC]

[Edited on 12-1-2018 by ELRIC]
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[*] posted on 12-1-2018 at 20:38


Has everyone had his say. It seems this topic has died of natural causes. I have some Christian satire in the form of a theological engineering exam. However, I'm hesitant to post it as it is humor and so far people have been posting in a very serious manner.



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[*] posted on 12-1-2018 at 21:12


It has gone through a lull but I doubt that it has expired. There are still a number of open questions and probably some claims that should be challenged.



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[*] posted on 13-1-2018 at 05:42


Quote: Originally posted by Magpie  
Has everyone had his say. It seems this topic has died of natural causes. I have some Christian satire in the form of a theological engineering exam. However, I'm hesitant to post it as it is humor and so far people have been posting in a very serious manner.


Go ahead. I don't mind, as long as people don't forget about my initial post on page 1.
I'm happy to read everyone's writings.




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[*] posted on 13-1-2018 at 06:02


Quote: Originally posted by j_sum1  
Wow. Vmelkon -- you put some effort into that.
But I am not convinced that this is the most productive line to take -- filinging scriptures back and forth. A lot will come down to interpretation and there will be no meeting ground between you and ELRIC. Firstly because ELRIC ascribes to these scriptures an authority and authenticity that you do not, Secondly because you both posses a different hermaneutic approach. And I doubt either or youe analyses would pass muster in terms of serious biblical scholarship.
I will note that the majority of the scriptures you both cited are from biblical poetry. Poetry, as you know contains imagery including metaphors and similies and other literary devices. It is not the author's intent that the words be taken in a literal sense. Psalm 98 says, "let the rivers clap their hands" but it would be a mistake to suggest that the author thinks rivers have actual hands. Some caution is required. And I think I mentioned in my previous post that using scripture in a proof (or disproof) exercise is not likely to propel this discussion forward in a constructive way.


Hello j_sum1,
Yes, it is a lot of text and I have more. Religion is also one of my hobbies. I would classify it as Anthropology, which I also like.

In terms of productivity, my objective is not to convert anyone. In my experience, that has never happened.

The thing is, these lines are spread out all over the bible. As you read pages 1 to 10, by the time you are on page 11, you forget portions of page 2. There are plenty of contradictions spread over 600 pages. You need to carefully collect these lines and put them side by side and you'll notice that there have been too many cooks in the kitchen.

Let me do a side by side:
Job 26:7
He spreads out the northern skies over empty space; he suspends the EARTH OVER NOTHING.

1 Samual 2:8
{2:8} He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, [and] lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill, to set them] among princes, and to make them inherit the throne of glory: for the PILLARS OF THE EARTH are the LORD’S, and HE HATH SET THE WORLD UPON THEM.

If you want to claim it is all metaphorical, then fine.
It reminds me a DarkMatter video.
jeffrey: "But god, people in the future are going to read this. They are going to interpret this in all sorts of ways. Then, science will come along. People are going to say that some of the bible contradicts discovery."
god: "jeffrey, some of those lines are metaphorical."
jeffrey: "Well, how are people suppose to know which parts are metaphorical and which parts are real."
god: "That's easy jeffrey. Obviously the parts that are scientifically wrong are metaphorical and the parts that are right are real."





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We must attach the electrodes of knowledge to the nipples of ignorance and give a few good jolts.
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vmelkon
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[*] posted on 13-1-2018 at 06:24


Quote: Originally posted by JJay  

Classic Carlin: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZ8hefESt7c


Yes, he is pretty funny and he is right. This is a more complete video.
In the first minute, he asks, Why 10 commandments? Why not 9 or 11?
Because it is marketing! People want the number 10. It makes it sound official. It is a psychological thing for humans.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVVo036N9OY

However, in reality, there are something like 600 commandments spread all over the bible.




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[*] posted on 13-1-2018 at 06:35


Here's question 1 of a 5 question exam:

Theological Engineeing Exam I

You may use a calculator, the Bible, the Koran, the Torah, and the Book of Mormon. The speed of light is c. Show all work. For all problems, assume a perfectly spherical Jesus of constant density D. No praying during the exam.

1. (20 pts) Bob and Joe are standing on a street corner. God loves each an equal amount L_0. Bob then accelerates to 0.9c. In Joe's rest frame, how much does God now love Bob?

[Edited on 13-1-2018 by Magpie]




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[*] posted on 13-1-2018 at 07:22


Trick question. God's love is a constant, and therefore does not change, even from the perspective of a moving observer.



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[*] posted on 13-1-2018 at 09:19


Since some humor is allowed ...

A dialogue between Abraham and Issac and then Abraham and God on Sacrifice, daughter of Humor:

And Abraham awoke in the middle of the night and said to his only son, Isaac, “I have had an dream where the voice of the Lord sayeth that I must sacrifice my only son, so put your pants on.” And Isaac trembled and said, “So what did you say? I mean when He brought this whole thing up?”

“What am I going to say?” Abraham said. “I’m standing there at two A.M. in my underwear with the Creator of the Universe. Should I argue?”

“Well, did he say why he wants me sacrificed?” Isaac asked his father.

But Abraham said, “The faithful do not question. Now let’s go because I have a heavy day tomorrow.”

And Sarah who heard Abraham’s plan grew vexed and said, “How doth thou know it was the Lord and not, say, thy friend who loveth practical jokes, for the Lord hateth practical jokes and whosoever shall pull one shall be delivered into the hands of his enemies whether they can pay the delivery charge or not.” And Abraham answered,

“Because I know it was the Lord. It was a deep, resonant voice, well modulated, and nobody in the desert can get a rumble in it like that.”

And Sarah said, “And thou art willing to carry out this senseless act?” But Abraham told her, “Frankly yes, for to question the Lord’s word is one of the worst things a per-son can do, particularly with the economy in the state it’s in.

And so he took Isaac to a certain place and prepared to sacrifice him but at the last minute the Lord stayed Abraham’s hand and said, “How could thou doest such a thing?”

And Abraham said, “But thou said-”

“Never mind what I said,” the Lord spake. “Doth thou listen to every crazy idea that comes thy way?” And Abraham grew ashamed. “Er-not really . . . no.”

“I jokingly suggest thou sacrifice Isaac and thou immediately runs out to do it.”

And Abraham fell to his knees, “See, I never know when you’re kidding.”

And the Lord thundered, “No sense of humor. I can’t believe it.”

“But doth this not prove I love thee, that I was willing to donate mine only son on thy whim?”

And the Lord said, “It proves that some men will follow any order no matter how asinine as long as it comes from a resonant, well-modulated voice.”

And with that, the Lord bid Abraham get some rest and check with him tomorrow.

https://nothingandi.wordpress.com/2012/11/06/god-and-abraham...
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[*] posted on 13-1-2018 at 10:15


Morgan:

My wife asked me the same question yesterday. I told her that God was just kidding and was testing Abraham's love for Him.

Melgar:

Does this mean that God's love has the same property as the speed of light, ie, remains constant no matter the frame of reference?




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[*] posted on 13-1-2018 at 11:14


Quote: Originally posted by Magpie  
Melgar:

Does this mean that God's love has the same property as the speed of light, ie, remains constant no matter the frame of reference?

Correct. Because God is omnipresent, He is also omnitemporal.

Huh. "Omnitemporal" is a real word. I thought I just made it up, but then spell check didn't correct it.

However, to clarify, God's love does not have a time component in the denominator; it is not a rate like the speed of light is. If it was a rate, then God would love old people more than young people, simply due to the higher value of the time integral, over the course of their lives. This would also lead to the rather unsettling conclusion that as God's age approaches infinity, his love for us approaches zero. Or at least, his ability to give us his undivided attention approaches zero.




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[*] posted on 13-1-2018 at 11:56


Quote: Originally posted by Magpie  
Morgan:

My wife asked me the same question yesterday. I told her that God was just kidding and was testing Abraham's love for Him.

Melgar:

Does this mean that God's love has the same property as the speed of light, ie, remains constant no matter the frame of reference?


Another perspective on the mysterious well-modulated voice ...

"But the sacrifice of Isaac shocked and unsettled Kierkegaard; he saw that the visceral, brutal nature of the ordeal undergone by both father and son had been "cleaned up" by the religious community, who downplayed, at least in public, elements in the story such as the three agonizing days it took Abraham and Isaac to reach Mt. Moriah, riding in silence and indescribable pain. To address the significance of this scriptural story adequately, believed Kierkegaard, we must recognize its horror, the inexplicability of the pain involved, the raw violence it does against the human being itself. We must, in a sense, see the story off the page, as if it were playing out before us in real time with the full weight and sensory impact of every moment of the ordeal."
"If our first response to such a man would be either the notion that he were a madman or criminal, or, more likely, that he were tragically deluded in false imagination of God's call, what keeps us from asking the same of Abraham? What if Abraham had misunderstood the will of God - what might have been lost in translation between divine speech and human understanding? What would we think of him then?"
https://www.swarthmore.edu/writing/impossible-ethics-a-respo...
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[*] posted on 14-1-2018 at 11:51


2. (20 pts) Assume the Rapture occurs at time t. Cornelia, a saved human weighing 90 kg, in a state of grace, has her head in the closing jaws of an alligator at time t. What mass of meat will remain to the alligator at time t + 10 sec.?




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[*] posted on 14-1-2018 at 12:16


Quote: Originally posted by Magpie  
2. (20 pts) Assume the Rapture occurs at time t. Cornelia, a saved human weighing 90 kg, in a state of grace, has her head in the closing jaws of an alligator at time t. What mass of meat will remain to the alligator at time t + 10 sec.?

I'm a little rusty on my theology, but I'm pretty sure that the meat would have to be digested and turned into something else in order to not get raptured. So even if her head was completely removed from her shoulders, it'd disappear along with her body, then she'd reappear whole.

This whole concept of righteous people disappearing instead of dying dates back to all those guys in the bible that lived like 700+ years. Funny thing about those numbers though: if you assume that rather than being their age in years, that was their age in lunar cycles, all their ages come out to be right about what you'd expect people to die at during that time period. Methuselah's age, if assumed to be given in lunar cycles, is about 72. Now, there was one fellow who was described as being taken by God at the age of 300-something. Some people who take the bible literally assume that he was especially righteous and that God took him to heaven directly. But if you assume that was his lunar age, the "God took him" line could easily be interpreted as "he died young".




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[*] posted on 14-1-2018 at 20:49


3. Sven, a Catholic, is in a state of grace. He then has sex with sheep S. a. (8 pts) What is Sven's atonement coefficient following the act if the sheep was not willing? b. (12 pts) What if the sheep, while not technically being willing, could not be said to mind either?



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JJay
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[*] posted on 14-1-2018 at 21:37


In terms of game theory or general strategy, what exactly is irrational about putting off repentance/accepting Jesus/etc. for as long as possible?



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[*] posted on 15-1-2018 at 03:18


Quote: Originally posted by JJay  
In terms of game theory or general strategy, what exactly is irrational about putting off repentance/accepting Jesus/etc. for as long as possible?


Good plan ... IF you know when you will die. :P




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JJay
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[*] posted on 15-1-2018 at 07:09


A person would probably end up sinning again after accepting Jesus/etc. anyway.



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[*] posted on 15-1-2018 at 09:01


My bet is you will be sinning again within the week.



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[*] posted on 15-1-2018 at 09:11


Quote: Originally posted by JJay  
In terms of game theory or general strategy, what exactly is irrational about putting off repentance/accepting Jesus/etc. for as long as possible?


Sounds like Pascal's wager. The assumption that it is a 2 faced coin : atheism vs christianity.

In reality, it is a coin with perhaps 50,000 faces. It sounds to me that Blaise Pascal was a brilliant mathematician but he was unaware that there are lots of religions.

It is odd that some of the most brilliant men in this world talk like idiots sometimes.




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We must attach the electrodes of knowledge to the nipples of ignorance and give a few good jolts.
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JJay
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[*] posted on 15-1-2018 at 10:54


Quote: Originally posted by Magpie  
My bet is you will be sinning again within the week.


Probably, LoL. Wait a sec - can just anyone take this bet (and is gambling a sin)?

Pascal's wager is a sort of a proto-game theory scenario (but makes the odd assumption that your beliefs are your decision).

[Edited on 15-1-2018 by JJay]




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